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The Confederacy was created in a political act to eliminate federal political control over the South, and to allow Southerners to live under a system of law that they believed was morally just. It might be the case that slavery was the primary motive for wanting freedom from federal control, but that doesn't change the nature of the political act of creating the Confederacy, as a political act. Hence, the use of the Confederate flag by those who wish to demonstrate that they don't give their moral sanction to federal governmental controls.

And, hence, my statement that the Civil War cannot be reduced to "a war over slavery." I was taught in school that it is as simple as, "The Civil War was fought because the South wanted to preserve slavery, and the North wanted to end it." There is much more that is worth thinking about here, such as, should States have more or less autonomy, with respect to the federal government? And, can secession from an established country ever be morally justified?

My comments about the Tariff of Abominations and the North's primary motive being to preserve the Union were intended to support my thesis that there were other important issues besides slavery - not to argue that slavery wasn't a very important influence upon the South's decision that political separation from the Union was the right way to go. Furthermore, that these issues are present cements the fact that there is a link between resistance to political injustice and the Civil War.

I tried (and failed, in a pinch) to find figures for the % of population enslaved before the formation of the CSA. But the fact that some states with a significant proportion of slaves remained in the Union (i.e. the border states), and that some states with relatively fewer slaves (I believe North Carolina and Tennessee, but again, could not find figures) joined the Confederacy, shows that the decision to join the Confederacy was not tied directly to the number of slaves in a state. "Being Southern" was a big part of the decision to rebel, and a big part of being southern was not being politically manipulated from a distance farther than the state capitol.

That said, I won't argue that slavery wasn't the biggest end motivation for rebellion, all things considered. The letter you included speaks strongly to the fact that political leaders in major slave states (South Carolina and Georgia had the most as a % of the population, from what I understand) used slavery as the overarching and primary justification for war.

"Forcing"? Would you care to explain which measures you mean by that word?

Ah, wait, never mind.

Whew! Didn't know whether you misread me there, or were heading into some broader philosophical point... for the moment, I'm glad it was the former. This has really been helpful for solidifying my thoughts, so feel free to take issue with anything I've said. Seriously, though, can a mod merge this with an existing thread on the topic, or make a new thread?

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make a new thread?

I created a new thread for discussion of the American Civil War. After all, this thread is supposed to focus on the context of BinniLee's room and his car!

BrassDragon, I replied to your last post there. I think the significance and meaning of the Civil war is a fascinating topic that is definitely warrants further discussion.

Confederate flag:

Why hang on wall:

1) It is a pretty flag

2) I'm a southerner

3) Other southern flags have the same meaning

Why not hang on wall:

1) It represents slavery (albeit two centuries ago)

2) I won't have any black friends

The first list outweighs the latter.

Japanese Rising Sun Flag:

Why hang on wall:

1) It is a pretty flag

2) I love the Japanese navy

3) It represents evil totalitarian imperialism (Equals: Comedy)

Why not hang on wall:

1) It represents evil totalitarian imperialism

2) Asian chicks might bitch

So it stays unless it comes between me and yellow skin.

Perhaps you are just being silly, but your response really suggests that you do not take ideas seriously. At the very least, not on this issue. This is ironic given that you seem to value Objectivism highly.

On a different note, just like Benjamin Franklin I derive a lot of enjoyment from thoroughly inspecting people's personal libraries. Thanks for feeding my interests. Did you read The Constitution of Liberty yet? What did you think of it?

Edited by DarkWaters
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I was just being silly.

On the other hand, more examination of intensions seem to be attached to the Confederate battle flag then other items. Say perhaps, if I had a poster of Wagner, not to many people would conemplate that I was and anti-semite. If I had a poster of Ayn Rand people wouldn't associate it with homophopia (inaccurate). That is because that isn't what they were primerily about. Especially in the case of Rand. However the civil war was definetly largly about slavery. But now it is mostly used by the sons of confederate veterans and people (mostly white, with exceptions though) that just like being southern. I like being southern and I like to fly it. I amm not sure if I should call myself an Objectivist; however I wouldn't be a very good one if I didn't have it on my wall because of what other people might think of it.

I do not associate it with slavery because of reasons stated in here by me and others (The post above was silly); if other people disagree so be it.

Edited by BinniLee
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