AshRyan Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Has anyone else seen this movie yet? I saw it last night, and thought it was pretty good, for what it was: a comedy bashing born-again evangelical Christians. It was rather amusing, and bashed them well. Of course, as with all of these kinds of movies, the ending is watered down with stuff to the effect that there is no objective morality but religion isn't completely stupid after all. But that was actually much less than I expected (only a couple of lines at the end), and the theme of the movie was just the negative point that morality can't be rationalistically deduced from a book. While it would have been nice if they'd actual been able to offer some positive hint at a rational alternative, that theme is correct and was well-executed. The Christian characters are somewhat stylized to highlight their viciousness and absurdity (although they don't have to be stylized too much, since there actually are Christians like the ones portrayed in the film, frighteningly enough), and there is a lot of attention to detail that is very good (a lot of the best jokes are just in the background, and you might miss some of them if you're not paying attention). Overall, I thought it was an enjoyable movie. Anyone else have any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvkormes Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I enjoyed the film to some extent. There were definitely some pretty funny moments. And yes, religious nuts are worthy of mocking. However... Of course, as with all of these kinds of movies, the ending is watered down with stuff to the effect that there is no objective morality but religion isn't completely stupid after all. This message is what I really can't stand. In the battle between the evangelicals' Jesus and the hippies' Jesus, "Saved!" is firmly on the hippies' side. Its message is that Jesus was a magnificent teacher who wanted us to be tolerant of everyone...except people who insist on passing moral judgment! The rise of evangelical religion in this country is due in large measure to the righteous indignation felt by (mostly) philosophically ignorant people towards the moral relativism pumped out by Hollywood, academia, and the press. While I have no sympathy for the evangelicals' philosophy or for their attempt to influence the realm of politics, I share their revulsion for the message of this movie. The message is: militant tolerationism...except towards the intolerant, who are intolerable and deserve to be mocked. I'm sure the TOC partisans love this movie. I do not mean to suggest that Ash is a TOC partisan. Let me suggest another movie that had a superficially similar theme: "Chocolat." I *love* "Chocolat." The difference between that film and "Saved!" is that "Saved!" sneers at moral judgment while "Chocolat" is an attack on *improper* moral judgment. It's a subtle, but huge, difference in my book. It shows that not "all of these kinds of movies," in Ash's words, are opposed to objective morality. And it makes "Chocolat" a wonderful film and "Saved!" mediocre at best, saved (pun intended!) from being termed awful only by a few funny digs at the religionists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwakeAndFree Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I didn't see "Saved". It will probably not come to my neighbourhood. However - did anyone see The Man Who Sued God? Now THAT'S a funny movie, based on a true story. The end also tries to smooth the anti-religious message, but it's still good. The story goes thusly: an ex-lawyer finds his happiness in living the simple life of a fisherman. Then a storm drowns his ship and all his belongings with it. The insurance company refuses to pay, saying it was "an act of God". So the man sues God, by filing a collective suit against those who claim to represent him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Bob Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I read a few reviews about it, and I can't decide whether or not I should see it. Some reviews just thought it was a teen comedy disguised, while others said it was well worth it. Either way it might be entertaining on some level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshRyan Posted June 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 I definitely agree that Chocolat is a better movie than Saved. But Saved is definitely worth seeing. While the little "tolerance" bit is at least irritating, that was NOT the theme of the movie, and the movie as a whole should not be evaluated on that basis. Rather, it was an afterthought hastily added at the last moment in the form of a few brief lines, and the only effect it has on the overall quality of the movie is that it is a meaningless detail that is not well-integrated into the whole. But the point of the movie is just that a moral code cannot be found in a book and followed mindlessly. You can hardly fault this movie for failing to offer Objectivist ethics as an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvkormes Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Ash says: While the little "tolerance" bit is at least irritating, that was NOT the theme of the movie, and the movie as a whole should not be evaluated on that basis. Rather, it was an afterthought hastily added at the last moment in the form of a few brief lines, and the only effect it has on the overall quality of the movie is that it is a meaningless detail that is not well-integrated into the whole. But the point of the movie is just that a moral code cannot be found in a book and followed mindlessly. You can hardly fault this movie for failing to offer Objectivist ethics as an alternative. I don't mind that it didn't offer the Objectivist ethics as an alternative (though that would be nice!) And yes, the explicit blather about tolerance came at the end of the movie. But I do not believe that the ending was "not well-integrated into the whole." Read this interview with the director: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/movies/17721...html?source=rss The man is both a leftist/liberal and a Christian, i.e. a fan of the hippies' Jesus. I think this movie will actually *assist* the disturbing (and real) rise of religious fundamentalism in this country. Why? Because hippie Jesus has no moral guidance (apart from the glories of tolerance and leftist politics) to give people who are desperately searching for it. The gospel of "Jesus loves you no matter what you do" is as repugnant as, if not more repugnant than, the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. For a liberal reviewer who seems to agree with me, I suggest the following review by James Berardinelli: http://movie-reviews.colossus.net/movies/s/saved.html You may not believe it, but the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops reviews movies and is usually pretty accurate in its characterizations of films, even if it evaluates them wrongly (which it usually does, given that it's a Catholic organization!). They seem to agree with me too. Here's what they had to say: http://www.usccb.org/movies/s/saved.htm For a review by an Objectivist that seems to agree more with Ash than with me, see: http://boxofficemojo.com/review/movies/?id=saved.htm Your mileage may vary. I do agree with one thing the director says in the interview linked above: we do need to think about these issues and discuss them. If others on the forum have seen this movie, I'd love to read what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 The difference between that film and "Saved!" is that "Saved!" sneers at moral judgment while "Chocolat" is an attack on *improper* moral judgment. It's a subtle, but huge, difference in my book. I agree. It's like the difference between, say, a British anti-Hitler movie and a Soviet anti-Hitler movie. (I do not mean to liken "Saved!" to Soviet propaganda; I haven't seen the movie, so I am not in a position to evaluate it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondolon Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I support the film, if for no other reason than to.... help... certain "religious" christians question their beliefs. Even if it does nothing but reaffirm them, hopefully they begin to understand why they believe what they believe, instead of remaining ignorant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 (edited) Has anyone else seen this movie? I watched it last night, and it was like reliving an exaggerated version of my high school years all over again. The people in the movie and the school they go to are basically exaggerations of where I went to school. If you've ever been fed up with any hypocritical, self-righteous Christians, then you'll enjoy this movie. It's actually a comedy, but I didn't laugh that much...I mostly just sat there and shook my head in amazement, because the way some of the people act, outlandish though it may be, is really not very unrealistic. This movie is not really anti-Christianity, so much as it just criticizes the way that many Christians choose to apply their faith. So, if, like me, you grew up as a Christian but despised a lot of the people you were associated with, if you despised your church's youth group, and if you despised the Christian school you went to, you should check it out. Edited February 20, 2005 by Moose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfarmer Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 (edited) I have indeed seen the movie and quite enjoyed most of it, even though the ending made me sick with its compromise. P.S. There's another thread on Saved here. [Not anymore -GC] Edited February 22, 2005 by GreedyCapitalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 (edited) i personally thought Saved was a very poorly directed, poorly acted movie and very cliche, especially for hollywood. It was not a well written movie, it was not very original and it did not have any particularly good qualities to it. If i remember correctly the only part in that movie that made me laugh was when the kid in the wheel chair held up a sign that said "I'll dance for food. The reason i think this movie was made was not simply to bash christians, i think the fact that christians do hold absolutes, whether you agree with that particular absolute or not makes them an easy target for hollywood and easily portrayed as bad guys. Edited May 22, 2005 by Rogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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