Anarchy / Minarchy / Competing Governments

No, it is that even with a perfect understanding of natural law philosophy, you can’t answer the question. This means that the difference between moral and immoral conduct under anarchy is unknowable.

Do you see this as happening because of some intrinsic failure of natural law philosophy to provide an answer to this question? Or do you see the issue of copyright duration as being a fundamentally non-objective issue like which side of the street we drive on? Or what? I don’t think I fully grasp the nature of your objection here.

The policies of the producers versus the consumers. Consumers prefer short-term duration of IP protection, producers prefer long-term protection. As a consumer, my conpany would have a duty to protect my right to copy any work 1 year after it has been created. As a producer my company would have a duty to protect the exclusive ownership right of the producer for 1,000 years. Who do I believe? Well, I suppose I will check to see who has a more powerful army and is more likely to prevail in a war.

You are, of course, assuming that there exist two agencies which are both willing to protect two contradictory rights, and willing to go to war to protect them. I seriously doubt that this will occur with any regularity.

Due to the fact that abiding by reason is volitional, there will never be a time in which any significantly large organization of individuals can rely merely on the good will (or the presumed) rationality of their neighbors.

I don’t see why B follows from A. While the volitionality of reason means that we can never be certain of the rationality of our neighbors, this is not the same thing as being sufficiently confident in the rationality of our neighbors to be able to live our lives.

Anarchy leads to chaos. It has happened every time a government has fallen in history.

Again, I don’t see how the second statement is supposed to support the first. Of course there will be chaos when a government falls, because the institutions which people have relied on for stability are gone, and new institutions have not yet arisen. You claim that since anarchy does not immediately fix chaos, anarchy must lead to chaos. This is silly.

And that is because there must be some protection over a large enough geographical area or people are not going to be able to plan long-range.

Even if I grant that this protection is necessary, you have so far failed to show that anarchists cannot provide it. Even if I grant the correctness of your objection to the “peaceful gang” solution, you have so far failed to show that anarchists who propose other solutions are also mistaken. Your argument is not finished.

it still seems that under anarcho-capitalism, the market outcomes will always reign supreme, even if the dominating protecting agencies are deliberately crushing rights that ought to be protected according to Rothbard’s views on natural law. This is what I mean by anarcho-capitalism being a form of subjectivism. A just society is not determined from objective reasoning but from the whim of a market.

In real life, whether you are a minarchist or an anarchist, if the bad guys have bigger guns and more supporters, the good guys lose. The only difference is that the minarchist calls this “A rogue political movement taking over,” whereas the anarchist calls it “market failure.” Real societies are not created by philosophical doctrines, but by human beings who may or may not be attempting to uphold good philosophical doctrines.

if they accept man’s rights, then they will get the United States of America.

Let’s stop honoring America as a bastion of rights until it starts acting like one again. We are not advancing the cause of our freedom by deifying the Fascism-ridden corpse of the ideal of a nation founded on reason.

Let’s stop honoring America as a bastion of rights until it starts acting like one again. We are not advancing the cause of our freedom by deifying the Fascism-ridden corpse of the ideal of a nation founded on reason.

Our claim to being a Nation founded on Rights is somewhat compromised by the 16-th Amendment to the Constitution.

And Eminent Domain does not further the claim either.

Bottom Line: The government picks your pocket, steals your land and redistributes the wealth with a need-based welfare system. This is respecting Rights?

I have often said, and I think the facts back me up: there are no Good Governments. There are only Bad Governments and Worse Governments. Maybe that can change, but I would not hold my breath until it does.

Bob Kolker

Do you see this as happening because of some intrinsic failure of natural law philosophy to provide an answer to this question?

It’s because it is beyond the reach of philosophy to determine what a complete legal code should be. That’s a very complicated specialized study which takes a lot of specific knowledge to achieve. Copyright duration is the most obvious example of the possibility of reaching conflicting conclusions from certain same basic principles. I would like to think that with a lot more study, we could come to a single correct conclusion, but much more work has to be done. Yet we have to have an answer now. An actual legal system gives you that, whereas anarchy leaves you simply not knowing for certain what the laws are.

You are, of course, assuming that there exist two agencies which are both willing to protect two contradictory rights, and willing to go to war to protect them. I seriously doubt that this will occur with any regularity.

I think it’s obvious that it will happen, although it’s possible that if La Cosa Nostra becomes the first law enforcement firm, they will have the infrastructure in place that there can be no serious challenge to their supremacy, so they can rule by threats rather than by actually shooting people. That’s basically the way they work now, it’s pssible that actual shooting will be less important and threats of shooting will be more important.

I have often said, and I think the facts back me up: there are no Good Governments. There are only Bad Governments and Worse Governments. Maybe that can change, but I would not hold my breath until it does.

There is in theory though…*holds up CUI*…but not fully in practice right now. Is that what you meant? Or no “Good Governments” in theory to?

In real life, whether you are a minarchist or an anarchist, if the bad guys have bigger guns and more supporters, the good guys lose. The only difference is that the minarchist calls this “A rogue political movement taking over,” whereas the anarchist calls it “market failure.” Real societies are not created by philosophical doctrines, but by human beings who may or may not be attempting to uphold good philosophical doctrines.

Still, I do not see how market anarchy does not amount to “might makes right”, as there is no final arbiter on the use of retaliatory force. On the other hand, under a government designed by Objectivist principles (not any arbitrary minarchist government) those serving in the government are only permitted to take action within the confines of the constitution. Real societies are often created by philosophical doctrines, many of wish are embodied in a constitution. Unfortunately, such legislature is not always honored, but having a constitution based on sound philosophical principles is overwhelmingly better than not having one at all.

This may be resurrecting a long-dead debate; if so, I apologize. However, I found the initial question of this thread of possible similarities between anarchism and objectivism quite intriguing, and this started me thinking on a topic related to both philosophies.

In my readings, I have noticed several different takes on force and the justifiability of its use. I have heard very eloquent arguments in favor of both complete pacifism and complete tyranny and everything ranging between; however, the only argument that I have found stood to reason is Rand’s belief that one is never justified in initiating force, but that one is completely justified in responding with force against such an initiation.

To the best of my knowledge, the obectivist view is that government is a monopoly on force, but that this monopoly is necessary in order for rights to be maintained. The anarchist view, contrastingly, is that any monopoly of force makes rights impossible. If these generalizations are inaccurate, please inform me - I make no claim to have any expert knowledge regarding either school of thought.

The dillemna I’ve come across is in trying to decide when it is justified to rebel against a government, and what such a rebellion would imply to that government’s monopoly on force. Socrates drank hemlock rather than contravene the laws of the state, despite believing that the verdict rendered against him was unjust. Martin Luther King repeatedly broke the law, but stipulated that this was only justified when he was prepared to face the consequences of doing so - paradoxically, he broke laws when he considered them unjust, but obeyed verdicts that sentenced him to prison terms, despite believing that such a verdict was unjust. Moving towards the violent scale, revolutionaries believe that the restrictions placed upon their freedoms gives them the right to forcibly overthrow the government, leading to such varied events as both communist Russia and America’s declaration of independence from European empires. At the far extreme, terrorism often arises from a radical group’s fervent belief that the only means they have of achieving freedom and securing their rights is by using wholesale force against civilian populations.

I could argue the underlying irrationality in most of the above scenarios; however, I mentioned them not for their validity but as a means of demonstrating the vast spread of differing opinion regarding the justifiable use of force against a government. My questions to those with a deeper understanding of objectivism and anarchism is as follows: what circumstances, if any, allow for someone to justifiably use force against their government; in what manner; and what would constitute a government’s initiation of force (i.e. unjustified jail time, disallowing pursuit of production, enforced acquisition to the will of the majority, etc.)?

The dillemna I’ve come across is in trying to decide when it is justified to rebel against a government, and what such a rebellion would imply to that government’s monopoly on force.

It’s very hard to say exactly when that is, but the basic principle is that when a government has absolutely repudiated reason and the concept of individual rights, and especially when the nature of the government cannot be changed by reason, then rebellion is justified. Some typical hallmarks of that situation are when there is no freedom of speech and thus the govenment cannnot be criticized, and no free and open elections and thus no means of peacefully changing the government, and finally a replacement of objectively stated laws with self referential statements (such as “found to be a danger to the state”, “determined to be a monopoly”). My fear in the US is that this latter type of subjective law, where you cannot know if you have committed a crime until you have been convicted, will increase. Fortunately, we presently have means to stop that.

Another sign that a nation is slipping into a situation where rebellion against the government is justified would be when the government revokes the individual’s right to own guns. That is a very troublesome indication. Free speech in a prison camp doesn’t mean a damn thing.

Another sign that a nation is slipping into a situation where rebellion against the government is justified would be when the government revokes the individual’s right to own guns. That is a very troublesome indication. Free speech in a prison camp doesn’t mean a damn thing.

I agree. However, a point I have come across that I have been unable to solidly refute as yet is that a government’s monopoly on force requires such disarmament of civilians. If anyone has a compelling argument on this point, I welcome it.

This may simply be a result of some confusion on my part regarding the objectivist view of government, so some clarity would be appreciated. Does objectivism believe that government requires a monopoly on force, or is it simply saying that this is the current state of affairs?

Does objectivism believe that government requires a monopoly on force, …

Yes, but that is consistent with owning guns for self-defense, for hunting, and the like. The government can legitimately impose restrictions on ownership in order to maintain its supremacy of force.

However, a point I have come across that I have been unable to solidly refute as yet is that a government’s monopoly on force requires such disarmament of civilians.

To refute a claim, you would have to address the arguments that supposedly support the claim. I’ve never seen any argument to support the claim that a government monopoly on the use of retributive force requires disarming citizens. So it would be had to imagine what the refutation would look like, given that there isn’t actually any argument to that effect.

Does objectivism believe that government requires a monopoly on force, or is it simply saying that this is the current state of affairs?

See VOS p. 128: “A government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of physical force under objective control” and “It has to hold such a monopoly, since it is the agent of restraining and combating the use of force; and for that very same reason, its actions have to be rigidly defined, delimited and circumscribed; no touch of whim or caprice should be permitted in its performance; it should be an impersonal robot, with the laws as its only motive power”. That is, by the nature of government, there should be a monopoly on this legally-sanctioned use of force.

I agree. However, a point I have come across that I have been unable to solidly refute as yet is that a government’s monopoly on force requires such disarmament of civilians.

The government’s monopoly on force doesn’t preclude the use of force to defend yourself. Firearms give individuals the ability to defend themselves against others who have or who intend to illegally initiated force against them.

This may simply be a result of some confusion on my part regarding the objectivist view of government, so some clarity would be appreciated. Does objectivism believe that government requires a monopoly on force, or is it simply saying that this is the current state of affairs?

Of course, I don’t speak for Objectivism, but I’ll give you my opnion. Yes, a rational society would require that government has a monopoly on force. Obviously, that doesn’t mean that you can’t defend yourself.

There is also, in my mind, a difference between retaliatory force and defensive force. If you shoot someone while they’re in the act of invading your home, that’s self-defense. If you come home to find the place ransacked, get your shotgun and proceed to track down and shoot the offender, that’s retaliation. Defense takes place only in the heat of the moment, during an emergency when you are pretty much justified in doing whatever you have to do to end the emergency. Retaliation is a cold-blooded, after-the-fact action that demands the strictest objectivity if it is to avoid violating the rights of potentially innocent people.

Anarchism invives citizens to use retaliatory force as well as defensive force. In an anarchist society, if someone broke into your home, you would have no recourse but to hunt down the perpetrator *yourself* and shoot him in the head. Ayn Rand gives an example about a man who misses his wallet, assumes it was stolen, and proceeds to force his way into every house in the neighborhood to search and shoots the first man that gives him a dirty look, assuming that look indicates guilt. Individual citizens don’t have the *means* to investigate and prosecute crimes, and even if they did their objectivity after they’ve been the victim would be suspect. That is why a neutral, objective third party is necessary.

The quasi-anarchist option is to have ‘competing’ governments, i.e. several agencies that all have the delegated right to use force in a geographical area. However, the *proper* term for competition between governments is a WAR. So this would basically just be an institutionalized permanent war.

That’s why the Objectivist politics calls for a government to have a monopoly on the retaliatory use of force in a certain area: anything else has really nasty consequences that are not good for anyone.

Thank you for the clarifications, everyone. DavidOdden, you are correct that I cannot expect any honest refutation of an argument without giving premises; I will endeavor not to repeat that error. Nonetheless the argument I spoke of has been invalidated. My confusion was in the difference between retributive and defensive force, which JMeganSnow has corrected; the argument relied on that lack of distinction.

There is still a point that is unclear to me, however. If a government has a monopoly on retributive force, what is the correct course of action when the government misuses this monopoly? This can take the form of either using that force when it shouldn’t, i.e. punishing someone unjustly or arbitrarily, or in not using that force when it should, i.e. allowing a violation of rights to go unpunished while preventing the injured party from seeking retribution independently.

The most obvious response, to me, is that governmental usage of force must be very carefully regulated and subjected to the most severe objective scrutiny. The problem with this response is that it presupposes that those providing such regulation and scrutiny are both capable of the high demand placed upon them, and motivated to fulfill that demand honestly. In placing the sole responsibility and privilege of retaliatory force in your government, you must first have a confident opinion of your government’s capability and motivation to properly retaliate for you. To illustrate, if a government that adhered to communistic ideals were to attempt a monopoly on retaliatory force, I would not agree; such a government would, by my reasoning, inevitably abuse such a monopoly.

If, having considered your government’s structure and examined its actions, you believe that it does not possess the capability or motivation to properly enact retributive force, what action should you take? If someone violates your rights, and your government does nothing, and you do nothing, then you have no security on your rights. If you take retributive action, then you have intruded on the government’s monopoly of retributive force; in order to maintain their monopoly, the government must take action against you.

If you attempt to reason the validity of your case, you are now depending on the listener being capable of and receptive to objective reasoning. If they are, there is no problem; but this is not a guarantee, and seems unlikely to occur. If the government was willing and able to hear such an argument, then why was it not acting on such a principle already?

People are not automatically objective or reasonable. Many people appear to be wholly incapable of such virtues. For a government to be capable and motivated to properly enact retributive force, it seems evident that it must be composed of the most discerning individuals; those most objective, most attentive to reason, most concerned with facts and reality above all else. To give such a power to those incapable of those virtues would be to invite disaster.

However, the ability to see what qualities are most necessary in government officials requires one to possess those qualities. You cannot reason with an unreasonable man; likewise, you cannot convince someone who does not view the world objectively of an objective truth.

I realize this seems to be rambling off topic; I will try to bring it home. If your government is operating objectively, but you are not, then it will appear identical to a government operating unobjectively when you are. In simpler terms, whether you’re wrong and they’re right, or they’re wrong and you’re right, you’ll still think that you’re right. As long as there remains those who fail to think in objective terms, as long as people exist who accept things based solely on faith, tradition, feelings, or instinct, then a government will be seen to favor one at the expense of the other. I say ‘seen to favor’ deliberately; I firmly believe that a government staffed fully by objective, reasonable individuals would be to everyone’s benefit. However, I cannot impart this view to someone unwilling to see it simply by wishing it so; I cannot force someone to see reason, no matter how reasonable my argument. For a completely rational, objective government to exist, anyone unwilling or unable to operate on objective thought would need to be prevented from voting; such people, through their votes, would enable a government to become comprised of those who would not properly utilize their office.

If this seems to be an illogical leap, I am curious as to how objective laws are passed. By majority? Majority opinion does not contain any sort of objective truth, unless the majority operate under objective reasoning. By decree? This requires a certain amount of faith in the one making the decree; but if one is able to perceive the virtues necessary for objective laws, one could understand the laws themselves - one would not need decrees, one would need explanation. By explanation, then? This requires the ability to understand the explanation - it requires one to be able and willing to think objectively. Regardless of the angle I take, I continue to return to the conclusion that, in order for an objective government to function, a certain amount of force is necessary to form and maintain it - force that is initiatory, not retaliatory, and as such, immoral.

This is operating on the assumption that the given area to be governed contains both rational and irrational people. If you were to remove the irrational people from the area, or conversely settle an area solely with rational people, then this dilemna is easily solved; if everyone in the jurisdiction was rational, then everyone would, through reasoned debate, come to objective conclusions together; there would be no issues with the government, as it would be impossible for irrational people to corrupt the government (as irrational people have been excluded from this area); the government, being only composed of rational individuals, would not be suspect; in fact, I seems every argument or point I just raised would be made moot in such a situation. It also seems that the necessity of a government at all would be made likewise moot.

What are the duties of a government? To protect man from men; to protect a society from invaders; to protect a society from internal corruption; to provide a system by which disputes can be fairly settled. In the matter of protection from without, in a society composed of rational, objective individuals, everyone would be a soldier. If your society is threatened, your freedom and rights are threatened; in such a scenario, every member of a rational society would rise up to protect what was theirs, and strike down those who had threatened them. So long as ‘barbarians’ existed, rational individuals would keep their combat skills honed; and, as Ragnar Danneskjold said, those who deal through force would discover what happens when they meet mind and force. In the matter of protection from internal corruption, a society comrised wholly of rational individuals would not fear internal corruption; even in a society comprised of a majority of rational individuals, internal corruption would not be feared as those who were irrational and who would create internal strife and corruption would stand out like sore thumbs. In the matter of settling disputes, objective, rational individuals do not need others to settle their disputes; they can settle them themselves.

In summary, the contradiction I am seeing is this: If a society is composed entirely, or even primarily, of objective, rational people, a government is unnecessary; if a society is composed in large part by those who are irrational and unobjective, then any government formed runs the constant risk of abuse. For those who are familiar with The Fountainhead, I find the situation Gail Wynand found himself in near the end of the novel illustrative of this: the paper he created ended up being used and abused by moochers and looters who could never have created it on their own, but who could utilitize it to further their own short sighted ends once it had been created.

Comments would be appreciated.

If a government has a monopoly on retributive force, what is the correct course of action when the government misuses this monopoly?

That depends on the nature of the misuse. For example, nonsystematic police brutality is already covered, and there are sanctions in place that will apply to the individual misuser. OTOH, taxation is a form of systematic legal misuse, which is remedied by repealing the law authorizing the tax. This might be done directly by the initiative process, for certain states, or by inducing the legislature to repeal the law. Or, if the government capriciously fails to protect your rights, they can be sued in courts, or laws can be passed explicitly requiring the protection of that right.

The most obvious response, to me, is that governmental usage of force must be very carefully regulated and subjected to the most severe objective scrutiny.

Yes, and in the US it is, to a considerable extent.

The problem with this response is that it presupposes that those providing such regulation and scrutiny are both capable of the high demand placed upon them, and motivated to fulfill that demand honestly.

Right, and more generally, it presupposes that you’re living in a rational society, not the barbaric outback.

In placing the sole responsibility and privilege of retaliatory force in your government, you must first have a confident opinion of your government’s capability and motivation to properly retaliate for you.

Well, no, in fact I just need to recognise that the government monopoly on retributive force is a fact, and quite independently I need to do whatever I can to be sure that the government is composed of rational, thinking and honest men. In other words, the monopoly on force is a necessary but but a sufficient condition for a free, civilized society.

If, having considered your government’s structure and examined its actions, you believe that it does not possess the capability or motivation to properly enact retributive force, what action should you take?

As I say, select different people to run the government. Propose and lobby for objectively justified rights-protecting laws.

If you attempt to reason the validity of your case, you are now depending on the listener being capable of and receptive to objective reasoning. If they are, there is no problem; but this is not a guarantee, and seems unlikely to occur.

Why do you think it is unlikely? Do you think then men are by nature irrational and evil? If so, you are doomed anyhow, and anarchy will just make things worse. The fact that it’s imaginable that everybody want to kill you doesn’t mean that they actually do, or that that justifies anarchy.

The point is that no political system is guaranteed to be fool-proof: because man if volitional, he can always do really dumb things like using other men as sacrificial animals. That’s just the way it goes.

If a society is composed entirely, or even primarily, of objective, rational people, a government is unnecessary; if a society is composed in large part by those who are irrational and unobjective, then any government formed runs the constant risk of abuse

Any government or lack of government runs the rish of abuse, so that’s a non-distinguishing characteristic. A government is necessary to give precise articulation to the nature of rights and the penalties for violating them. As a simple application, without an explicit and encoded law of copyright, I would not know if the rights to my book last 10 years, 25, or 100. And neither could a person wishing to make a copy of my book – he would never know when his acts are right vs. wrong.

You rely on people to govern in the same way you rely on them to provide you with a house, food, and a job. You accept their competence when, as, and to the extent that they demonstrate it.

There’s been some discussion around here about the principle of rule of law, which in my mind is the principle that a flawed institution is better than no institution. That’s why I respect (as in, obey) laws such as speed limits even though they’re immoral and improper: the U.S. government still exerts an overall beneficial influence in my life. Oh, sure, it’s annoying at times, but it’s not worth the chaos and destruction of an all out war . . . yet. I’m hoping the culture can be changed for the better before it’s too late. I know some people around here have pointed out some good examples for how you tell when it’s too late and it’s time to take up arms.

Just make sure that if it does happen, you’re fighting to put something better in place, not just to get rid of the existing government.

In summary, the contradiction I am seeing is this: If a society is composed entirely, or even primarily, of objective, rational people, a government is unnecessary; if a society is composed in large part by those who are irrational and unobjective, then any government formed runs the constant risk of abuse. For those who are familiar with The Fountainhead, I find the situation Gail Wynand found himself in near the end of the novel illustrative of this: the paper he created ended up being used and abused by moochers and looters who could never have created it on their own, but who could utilitize it to further their own short sighted ends once it had been created.

No, even fully rational, objective people can have disagreements or become confused. And men will always have free will, so the fact that everyone in society is rational *right now* doesn’t preclude men from becoming irrational in the future. Whenever men come together to form a society, a government is necessary.

As for your questions about how a rational government gets formed: I think of it happening approximately like this. A bunch of men live in close proximity and deal with each other regularly. Two of them have a dispute about who owns a particular bushel of potatoes. Before they can start beating the crap out of each other, the others show up, restrain them politely but firmly. The two complainents each declare that they are the owner of the potatoes. It’s obvious they aren’t going to settle this between themselves, so the other citizens say, “we need someone to judge between you”. “Hey, we’ll get Frank to do it, he’s smart and everyone trusts his judgment, right?”

So, Frank sits down and hears the complaints of both sides, and he decides who owns the potatoes. The man that lost out is inclined to protest, so Frank appoints a couple of other citizens as bailiffs to make sure he behaves. This is not an intiation of force against him: he initiated force by making an improper claim to potatoes. The bailiffs are just there to put a stop to that.

Now, this story is of course not how it has actually happened throughout human history. De Facto governments were created by strongmen before anyone ever understood the principles involved. However, it’s not quite right to look at the existing situation and say that because most *current* governments were put into place by the initiation of force against other men that this is *necessarily* a trait of government. The U.S. came about because men were *defending* their rights, *not* via extortion. Newer, better governments in the future will hopefully come about through peaceful change.

J.Meagan Snow:

No, even fully rational, objective people can have disagreements or become confused. And men will always have free will, so the fact that everyone in society is rational *right now* doesn’t preclude men from becoming irrational in the future. Whenever men come together to form a society, a government is necessary.

Me:

Aberrant behavior (as you point out) is always possible, even for the rational. What is more likely is that ambiguity, which ever lurks in our language, can lead to less than fully specific contracts. That means rational people can disagree on the terms of a mutually agreed upon contract. Implicit assumptions can slip in, uninvited. So at the very least, agencies must exist within the society to peacefully resolve such disputes.

In addition, none of us are always in top level mental condition fully focused at all times. We all have our moments when we are not thinking about what we do carefully. This can happen because of fatigue, illness and just plain daydreaming. During such moments acts of negligence can occur. Torts can happen even among people with good will, so the means for settling tort claims and assigning monetary damage has to exist.

Then there are unintended side effects, leading to damages. None of us are omniscient, so there is no way of preventing such side effects in all cases.

Conclusion: government, at some level, must exist to resolve contract disputes, tort claims and make people accountable for the wrongful damage they do. And such things will happen even among rational folks of good will.

Bob Kolker

Jen:

Your example would be improved if even the two men involved agreed that Frank should settle the dispute.

In summary, the contradiction I am seeing is this: If a society is composed entirely, or even primarily, of objective, rational people, a government is unnecessary; if a society is composed in large part by those who are irrational and unobjective, then any government formed runs the constant risk of abuse.

In addition to the points made by JMeganSnow and Robert J. Kolker, I’d like to add that a rational society will need a military (or the means to form one), for the simple fact that other societies can act irrationally, and violate the rights of individuals in other societies.

Also, extending the point about rationality not being automatic, circumstances can exist which can obliterate (temporarily or otherwise) a person’s capacity to act rationally, such as psychological problems, unfortunate events, etc. which could lead to actions which we consider criminal (e.g. assault and battery). The government is tasked with protecting individual rights, and part of that would involve protecting its society from violations of rights originating domestically–which is the task of the police.

Lastly, a society, no matter how rational, will always be able to detect when irrational individuals enter its borders (e.g. 9/11 hijackers), and it will need a domestic agency (the police) to protect citizens when and if such individuals decide to carry out their irrational plans.