Genetics

Dude, read your own words: if you offer a 4-way distinction, you cannot publicly use the word “binary”

and not get hassled. There are 5 traditional race categories, which states facts about humans (generally). The recognition of “mixed race” does correctly encode the fact that this is a continuum with certain major clusters and marginal cases.

Theyre binary categories in the sense that either youre in one, or youre not (ie membership is all or nothing). ‘Mixed race’ is a misleading term since it implies that everyone who isnt mixed race is ‘fully’ Caucasion/Negroid/whatever.

Do pick an example that’s better than color: neither race nor (visual) color are arbitrary. These are wholly valid recognitions of fact.

It depends what you mean by ‘recognition of fact’. The way in which we have broken up the racial and colour spectrums isnt based on any ‘fact’ that could make our way right and someone else’s wrong - its just the way that we have come to do things. Its true that people with white skin look different from people with black skin, but this alone doesnt justify our racial categories; short people with black hair look different from tall people with blonde hair, yet we dont class them as being members of a different race. Our notion of race is primarilly (historically) based on skin colour, but theres no objective reason to prefer a categorisation based on skin colour over one based on eye colour or height.

Just because the neo-Dadaist postemodernological deconstructionarians shrilly decry the arbitrariness of race does not make it an arbitrary classification.

If its not arbitrary, then give a rational reason why Negroid has more objective validity as a racial category than Irish redhead.

All of our categories? What is “fuzzy” about the category, “male”?

Sorry, exaggeration. I should have said ‘most’. Anyway, ‘male’ is probably a fuzzy category; see androgeny, hermaphrodites, Klinefelter’s syndrome etc. We could choose to class these people as being ‘male’, ‘female’, or belonging to some third category - theres nothing forcing us to go one way or the other. I dont think theres any rigid biological definition of ‘male’ in the “necessary and sufficient” sense.

Outside of pure biology, it makes sense to say that one person is more masculine than another, even if we would call them both male. We also talk about manly women. This all seems to imply that our ordinary language category of ‘male’ is fuzzy.

Stated more generally, is it your position that the referents of all concepts are selected arbitrarily?

No, of course not. The way we divide up the race and colour spectrums are fairly arbitrary however - our classifications have arisen for historical reasons rather than through rational reflection. If another culture classified races in a different way from us, we couldnt say they are wrong for the same reason we couldnt say a culture which grouped blue and green together was wrong - theres no underlying fact of the matter here. This obviously doesnt extend to most of our concepts though.

Our notion of race is primarilly (historically) based on skin colour, but theres no objective reason to prefer a categorisation based on skin colour over one based on eye colour or height.

In fact it’s actually historically based on skin color and skull measurement (and then other bones, but you know how people are always tweaking with theories). The validity of any categorization is based on a purpose, which was classically historico-ethnographic, and such physical facts are still used today with real scientific benefit (consider, for example, the shovel-shaped incisor). A categorization that includes skin color and eye color is better than one that includes only skin color or only eye color. Substituting height for either of the color categories would be worse, because it is extremely unreliable and only weakly correlated with history, but adding it (giving a three-property categorization) would be better. Although I would not say height is “useless”, just that height isn’t highly robust – it’s useful for intermediate-range historical reconstruction in the Lacustrine and northern Congo area of Africa.

If its not arbitrary, then give a rational reason why Negroid has more objective validity as a racial category than Irish redhead.

Hang on, are saying that arbitrariness and precision are the same thing? Like, if one category is more precise than another, then the less precise category is arbitrary? Let’s sort that out and they we can address the problem of the black Irish.

… groups differ in frequencies of genetically determined characteristics … There is no reason to think that this variation does not also affect genes which contribute to intelligence, creativity, aggressiveness, and other mental attributes.

Isn’t that sentence a double negative that should actually read “There is reason to think that this variation does affect genes which contribute…”?

In proper English, a double negative is a positive. However, it may not mean the same thing as one would get by just dropping both negations. As in this case, the double negation is often weaker than a straight-forward positive.

I am not claiming to have specific evidence that the variations in intelligence (for example) are caused, even partially, by any genetic difference between whites and blacks. I am just saying that differences of that nature are to be expected on general principles. See the writings of Thomas Sowell.

People different in lots of different ways. Why is there more reason to believe people with black skin have different genetic mental ability than whites, than there is to believe that redheads are genetically smarter than blonds?

There probably is a difference in the average intelligence of redheads and blonds; although I would not venture a guess as to which is more intelligent. However, because blonds and redheads are probably more related to each other on the average than blacks are to whites, the difference is probably less in the former case.

Also, the same gene sometimes affects more than one visible attribute. So attributes which appear to be unrelated can be highly correlated.

But my original point still stands; theres no obvious reason to think that genetic mental capacities are more likely to vary between whites and blacks than there is to think that they vary between Irish redheads and Californians.

But they probably DO vary between Irish redheads and Californians.

Sorry, exaggeration. I should have said ‘most’. Anyway, ‘male’ is probably a fuzzy category; see androgeny, hermaphrodites, Klinefelter’s syndrome etc. We could choose to class these people as being ‘male’, ‘female’, or belonging to some third category - theres nothing forcing us to go one way or the other. I dont think theres any rigid biological definition of ‘male’ in the “necessary and sufficient” sense.

If we are talking about concepts there is definitely something “forcing us to go one way or the other”: the need for clarity in cognition. Including the “androgynous” (which means “neither specifically male or female” or “possessing both male and female characteristics”) among the referents of the concept “male” would render the concept meaningless; it would no longer refer to something specific. This is why we have we have the concepts “male”, “female”, “androgynous” and “hermaphrodite”; they refer to four different types of entities.

I suggest you read pages 69 - 74 of ITOE for a discussion of why certain concepts should not be combined or integrated.

Outside of pure biology, it makes sense to say that one person is more masculine than another, even if we would call them both male. We also talk about manly women. This all seems to imply that our ordinary language category of ‘male’ is fuzzy.

“Masculine”, “male” and “manly” are three different concepts referring to three different characteristics. Through the observation of similarities and differences, our mind permits us to abstract and identify different characteristics; the process of measurement-omission permits us to integrate our observations into a single unit; we concretize this unit by assigning a word to represent it. Nothing about this process implies “fuzziness”.

The validity of any categorization is based on a purpose, which was classically historico-ethnographic

I dont think this is true; I was under the impression that science just picked up the ordinary language classifications (white/black/asian) and made a few minor modifications to them. I’m not entirely sure though, because its not something I’ve read much about.

As you say, the validity of classification schemes are based on the purpose they serve. But I dont think that racial classifications have any real benefits, and I doubt that they ever have. Their negative effects have been significant though.

Hang on, are saying that arbitrariness and precision are the same thing?

I’m not sure what you mean here - I didnt say anything about precision…

I was under the impression that science just picked up the ordinary language classifications (white/black/asian) and made a few minor modifications to them. I’m not entirely sure though, because its not something I’ve read much about.

No, it was a development of physical anthropology as part of the study of man throughout the world, and the origins of man. In English, the traditional classifications are Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, American, and Malay – if you want to go for an early scientific work, Blumenbach’s MD was on the races of man (I think it was written in Latin – I haven’t seen it). At any rate, he was approaching the matter as an anthropologist and physiologist, and undertook extensive empirical research of human skulls.

But I dont think that racial classifications have any real benefits, and I doubt that they ever have. Their negative effects have been significant though.

You’re objecting to social consequences; I’m talking about scientific benefits (although, relatively little contemporary benefit since the historical issues are vastly clearer that they were in the mid 18th century). Racial distinctions arose because there were separate pockets of man who evolved without significant interaction, which resulted in inheritable differences (eye and skin, tooth shape, various fat deposits on the face, bone structure). This evidence is useful in understanding human history and human migrations, because unlike language, they do not change dramatically within a generation. Scientifically, it’s a pretty blunt tool, but back in the day, they hadn’t perfected mitochondrial DNA studies (inter alios).

Of course if you’re saying that historical knowledge is of no value to you, I can’t argue with that point.

I’m not sure what you mean here - I didnt say anything about precision…

You did: you raised the point that race is not a precise, crisp category because there are intermediate cases.

I’m going to read up on the history of the concept over the next few days, I’ll reply later on.