ObamaCare and how you will react to it

Ethics
21

Do you not see a difference?

Car insurance is not mandatory, you only have to carry it to the extent that you drive. Even then you have choices to carry only liabilty or you can choose a larger package.

There is no opt out in the HCR, essentially it is a tax on being alive. And you have no options as to what is in your package, the govt is mandating that as well. Do you also not feel imposed upon that (depending on your income) you may be paying far more for the same service?

Or that the rights of many physicians are being violated by this?

Yes, I see a difference in scope. My point was that I’m not going to let some form of socialism keep me down, or let it occupy anymore of my thought than it deserves.

22

I plan on mainly dealing with this by laughing/drinking. It was inevitable it get passed. This is a hopeless struggle to stop America from becoming fascist. My main questions are what country I’m going to move to, when, and if I should at all. Sometimes I see the odd good sign, but rarely. I will be greatly surprised if any significant change in direction occurs in 2012. As they say in zombie movies, this entire country is “too far gone.” I’ve long given up hope of redeeming the USA. Pointing out something like “A right does not come at someone else’s expense!” is ignored usually. This is no longer the land of the free. Is Australia much better?

I’m not that cynical; nor am I moving anywhere. However, I always thought the same thing: it was inevitable and more is yet to come on the health front. They’ve been talking about universal health care fore years; the US rides in the intellectual wake of Europe who has such systems; and soon real universal health care will be demanded by the public–President Obama wasn’t elected by some mystery.

Health care has been socialized for a long time, increasing significantly since the 1960’s. Republicans have long since given their half-assed stamp of approval to this socialization, culminating in their current support for Medicare and Medicaid, and fascist insurance regulations that mandate who gets covered with “preexisting conditions.” Lets also not forget the type of health care system envisioned by Mitt Romney, a GOP front-runner for the next presidential election. Seeing the GOP Chairman on the news recently, saying the party will not push to reject the whole bill in the future, and who only looked to be interested in continuing to whip up a stupid populist campaign doesn’t give me hope for a return to the less socialized health care system of a few days ago.

Additionally, so long as the country’s path continues on the track it’s on, health care could only get more socialized. If we use the European model for unemployment and carry 10% unemployment regularly, the new poor, the lower middle class will be all for health care.

When a significant amount of the population begins to re-understand the concept of rights, then I’ll start becoming startled when some form of socialism gets passed into federal law.

23

Here is some brainstorming:

We should target enemies we have been missing. I can point my finger to two of them: Christian religion and hedonism.

The American society, as many societies in the world, debate on whether it is preferable to take pleasure or the Bible as the moral standard.

CHRISTIAN RELIGION

We must attack recklessly Christian faith and moral because it is wrong, because and it is evil and because it is damaging us.

The masses in USA do not need Kant to disguise Christian superstition and moral under the cover of rationalism. They still live on faith. Millions still think they can let the Bible guide their moral. Millions more will seek in the Bible answers to the collapse of the world around them, and in doing so they will find more “reasons” to reject prosperity, rational thinking, individualism.

Sometimes we decry Islam as our worst enemy, when our worst enemy lives in within our walls, inside our neighbourhoods. It is not as much Islam as Christian religion. It is Christanism, not Islam, who has taught men to “offer the other cheek” when slapped. At least Islam teaches treating enemies as what they are.

It’s pointless trying to persuade a Christian to reject Kant because they don’t read Kant. They read John 3:16.

Obama used Biblical wording to support his intentions on health reform (“it’s about time to become our brother’s guardian”, taken from Genesis, where God asks Cain for their brother Abel and he replies “I am not my brother’s guardian”). Obama didn’t quote Kant, but the Bible.

Ayn Rand said that she wasn’t so worried about religion in America beacuse, in general, it hadn’t made a dent on individualism.

Not anymore. Maybe the faith of the Calvinist pioneers was one thing, but the faith of modern born-again Fundamentalist is another thing.

Let alone the frontal attack of Catholic church against capitalism.

The Catholic Church is the largest in America, and keeps growing from immigrants (like those of my country) and their high fertility rates. And it will be a formidable enemy of the American free men in the near future.

HEDONISM

We must defend lucid, flourishing life as the standard of value and get passionate about ethics in daily life as we do with capitalism.

We must defend the rational dimension of sexual activity. We must defend romantic love and art. We must defend virtues.

We must present life based on immediate pleasure and short-term goals as what it is: irrational and evil. No fence-sitting.

In the same way we defend our right to live without a nanny state that want to protect our health from our own stupid acts, we must defend a rationally healthy lifestyle. If it is irrational to eat in certain way, or smoking, then it is immoral as well. No fence-sitting.

While we reject unscientific hysteria about global warming, we should promote a lifestyle based on a rational use of energy. Why? Beacuse it makes economic sense. Because fossil fuel is running out anyway. Reserves are not eternal, they are dwindling, and we know it. We will reduce our driving not because of CO2 emissions and concern about polar bears, but because gasoline will become more and more expensive.

Rejecting hedonism and religion altogether will confound our enemies.

24

I’m not that cynical; nor am I moving anywhere.

Yeah. Even if one knows the we are dying of a thousand cuts, the deeper slashes still hurt.

They’ve been talking about universal health care fore years; the US rides in the intellectual wake of Europe who has such systems; and soon real universal health care will be demanded by the public–President Obama wasn’t elected by some mystery.

True. It is not as if a slim minority who did not like Obama but voted for him anyway did put him in power. People voted for him because they liked what he said. Whether they liked him because of deep ideological sympathy, or because he was black, or because they just don’t think too deeply, the blame rests there. Obama is a vehicle for the American voter. Nothing will change unless the American voter changes ideology. It is frustrating – it is the type of frustration the drives people do join the Libertarians, so that they can do something now – but the truth is that one can only achieve small victories on the margin without some movement in the ideological center of gravity

Some reports suggest that McCain was for the “individual mandate”. If McCain had been President, a Democratic house might have taken a slower approach. We would have had much less opposition, because McCain would have been seeking some type of “compromise”. Hark back to George Bush’s expansion of Medicare. While there were lots of objections among the GOP political classes, there really wasn’t any wider opposition. It is not merely that the GOP would take us to statism slower and the Democrats would take us faster. I think the Democrats also will take the country less willingly, while the GOP will take the country there with hardly a whimper. One route goes in large steps and pauses of fatigue, and the other goes in consistent baby steps.

And this is not just about healthcare. McCain would have been more than happy to punish what he sees as the evil, greedy businessmen of Wall Street. It is the GOP under Bush – via Paulson – who tried to solve our economic crisis by heavy statism and government deficits. Sarbanes Oxley happened under Bush. Alan Greenspan cheered as we got into this mess, while Volcker (much more explicitly statist) might actually have fared better.

25

I think I made my reply hastily. Letting them jail me would be sacrificing my life (my highest value) for a lesser value (Individual freedom).

The best thing to do is to grin and bear it and continue to call out anyone who has not taken the time to define rights or values. Wherever there is a facebook status update proclaiming healthcare as a right, I will be there searching for people willing to listen and accept the truth. I will no longer waste my time on Democrats or Republicans. They are absolute children. It is not worth it for me to keep leading horses to water and then having them try and demonstrate that there really isn’t any water.

In relation to the “zombie apocalypse” reference, look for survivors. We have to connect with reasonable minds. If this website is any indication, they are definitely still out there and in numbers far greater than expected. Continuing with our zombie allegory, what has ever come from slaughtering droves of them? Nothing but wasted ammunition and energy. What I mean by this is do not waste your time on unreasonable people. Surround yourself with individuals who think freely and will openly accept their own errors. This makes living in a world that thinks your ideas are a joke much easier.

And I wouldn’t despair quite yet over healthcare. We still have the option of a constitutional convention;

http://gohmert.house.gov/index.cfm?section…&itemid=805

My bottom line is “If” by Rudyard Kipling. Keep your head up and know that you are leagues ahead of most men. As long as I am alive I will pursue greatness and as long as no man is pointing at gun at my head I will achieve it. Short of physical force, there is little that can stop me from becoming what I want to become.

26

PS - Car Insurance is mandatory in Texas.

I beg to differ- or are you saying that you are forced to buy insurance even if you don’t own a car or drive?

27

Th3ranger

Regarding Australia.. no it isn’t better, nor alas is New Zealand which I moved away from in 2007.

28

Honestly, I’m starting to research Graduate Schools. I’m resolved to get my masters in political science and seek out someone who will employ me to help reduce the influence and power of the Statist class in our government. I’d like to end up with a PHD eventually so that I may teach philosophy and political science to students.

29

Honestly, I’m starting to research Graduate Schools. I’m resolved to get my masters in political science and seek out someone who will employ me to help reduce the influence and power of the Statist class in our government. I’d like to end up with a PHD eventually so that I may teach philosophy and political science to students.

This was my exact plan until I changed it a few weeks ago. I’m going to be a constitutional lawyer and write about the growing immorality and anti-individualism in today’s laws.

30

This was my exact plan until I changed it a few weeks ago. I’m going to be a constitutional lawyer and write about the growing immorality and anti-individualism in today’s laws.

I’d be careful… they always come for the educated types first… <_<

Interesting that Obama’s two biggest influences politically (Lincoln, FDR) are the only two to throw aside habeas corpus.

Coincidence?

31

I’d be careful… they always come for the educated types first… <_<

Let them :twisted:

Just more to write about.

32

we should create a secret capitalist society in a valley in the mountains of colorado! <_<

33

Since I am from Canada unfortunately I have been living under the “single payer system” my entire life, and yes, it is literally a tax, not only on you being alive, but on you for everyone else being alive as well.. As for what I intend to do, I intend to endorse my local municipal, provincial and federal candidate for the libertarian party as I know that is the only political party today which actually supports freedom and capitalism.

34

Become as rich as possible.

35

When you go to war against terrorists in the Middle East, you don’t mind if the soldier on your right is a Methodist, and the soldier on your left believes in angels or elves, and your captain was an Objectivist but then changed his mind and is now a convinced Utilitarian.

They are your fellowmen and you combat shoulder to shoulder with them for a common cause. Why? Because it is in your best interest to fight for an environment that will lead to better chances of floushing for you and your beloved ones.

In the battle for power, at the ballots, why shouldn’t O’is join the Libertarians, even if in the philosophical arena we keep our distance from them?

36

we should create a secret capitalist society in a valley in the mountains of colorado! :smiley:

As awesome as that would be, I doubt we have enough skilled/rich people to be self-sustaining. :stuck_out_tongue:

37

There’s also no way it could be a secret with today’s technology in the hands of those who would want the secret.

38

When you go to war against terrorists in the Middle East, you don’t mind if the soldier on your right is a Methodist, and the soldier on your left believes in angels or elves, and your captain was an Objectivist but then changed his mind and is now a convinced Utilitarian.

They are your fellowmen and you combat shoulder to shoulder with them for a common cause. Why? Because it is in your best interest to fight for an environment that will lead to better chances of floushing for you and your beloved ones.

In the battle for power, at the ballots, why shouldn’t O’is join the Libertarians, even if in the philosophical arena we keep our distance from them?

I think you’ve made a better case in the current environment for joining the Republicans. Right now, the most pressing political imperative for anyone who loves freedom is to vote enough Republicans into power that Obama doesn’t have carte blanche to do whatever he wants. As far as the Libertarians are concerned, over the years the party has been a complete and total electoral failure. A vote for a Libertarian candidate in all but the smallest local races is a wasted vote.

When you are dealing with a statist of Obama’s dismal character, our first priority should be to stop him and the way to do that is to ride the only horse with a chance of winning the race. Right now, that horse is the Republican party.

39

I would suggest moving close to the border and buying a policy that covers treatment at Mexican hospitals, or buying insurance in Mexico outright. Private hospitals here, especially in big cities, are first class. Local doctors are very good.

Of course, many of the doctors who work here trained or did work in the US to begin with. Innevitably their quality will drop once American healtchare goes down the crapper.