Things appear to be getting worse, rather than improving.
900 vehicles torched in a night is pretty remarkable.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051105/ap_on_…HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
It’s interesting that the word Islam can’t be found in this AP article.
Remember that France did go through that ban on religious insignia for its public school students, although I don’t think infringment on clothing choice in public schools is really the way to handle extremism. […] France did not give in and insisted that it is a secular society , a distinction I sure wish we would make in America!!
Three points I would like to offer about the words I have put in bold:
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My memory of news reports tells me that the ban was on “conscpicuous” symbols of religion, not all symbols: Ban head scarves, but allow tiny crosses or Stars of David, for example. The rationale was that the teacher standing in front of a large class should not be able to classify students at a glance and thus subject them to discrimination. However, as usual, the reports I read were vague, but perhaps that is because the law that was passed was vague too. I offer this only as a heads-up for anyone who might be planning to debate the issue of secularity and draw on French experience.
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What do you mean by “extremism”? Ayn Rand identified the term/idea as an anti-concept. (For anyone new to the idea of an anti-concept, see “Anti-Concepts,” The Ayn Rand Lexicon, pp. 23-24 for other examples of anti-concepts.)
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I too have heard French officials boast of their secular government/nation. But I would be cautious about accepting that claim. For example, I believe I have seen news reports that say that one strategy the French government has planned to use to combat Muslim fundamentalists is to finance – with tax money – “moderate” Muslim intellectuals in their own mosques. As another example, I would want to know what tax money, if any, or special benefits religious institutions receive in France. In Germany, according to my shaky memory of news reports, the government finances the physical upkeep of some church buildings – following the rationalization that they have “historic value.”
So, in summary, if I were investigating this further, I would question any French government claims to being secular.
Maybe even the French will learn some sense now.
I expect things to get much, much worse in the coming years, all over Europe. The population of Europe is ageing and declining, with more and more people living of the state, and fewer and fewer natives to support them. The productive capacity has been shifting to the migrant population, who, due to multiculturalism, haven’t been integrated into the society at all. There is no way to reverse the trend, short of Europeans giving up the welfare state, or Muslims giving up their religion – not gonna happen.
The only US politician I can think of that ever said anything similar was our first president, who said the USA was not in any way founded on the Christian religion. We have certainly regressed since that time!
Not to nitpick or anything, but that was a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli, written by Joel Barlow and signed into law by John Adams. :lol:
At any rate, I hate to say it, but…this is poetic justice at its most poignant. After all France has done to appease Islamic terrorists, is it any surprise that they’re about to be overthrown by these crazies? While it may be farfetched, it isn’t entirely out of the realm of possibility that this could start a much larger conflict in which the French government ends up being overthrown. If that ever happens…we’ve bailed them out enough in the last century, and I say we just let them live under a Caliphate for a few years just to teach them the meaning of humility, then bail them out in exchange for certain favors.
900 vehicles torched in a night is pretty remarkable.
It’s the cars! They hate the cars! Stay away from the cars!
(Adapted from “The Jerk”, an old Steve Martin film.)
It’s the cars! They hate the cars! Stay away from the cars!
(Adapted from “The Jerk”, an old Steve Martin film.)
You may have a good point. They are almost all French made Peugots and Renaults. So the fires may just be spontaneous combustion of French made technology filled with flammable materials. Sounds like a perscription for disaster to me.
Not to nitpick or anything, but that was a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli, written by Joel Barlow and signed into law by John Adams.
At any rate, I hate to say it, but…this is poetic justice at its most poignant. After all France has done to appease Islamic terrorists, is it any surprise that they’re about to be overthrown by these crazies? While it may be farfetched, it isn’t entirely out of the realm of possibility that this could start a much larger conflict in which the French government ends up being overthrown. If that ever happens…we’ve bailed them out enough in the last century, and I say we just let them live under a Caliphate for a few years just to teach them the meaning of humility, then bail them out in exchange for certain favors.
Nah, the French government is sitting on the third (or fourth) largest nuclear arsenal in the world, after the USA and Russia (and perhaps China). If they are under threat of being supplanted by a Caliphate, we’ll have no choice but to invade France ASAP to prevent those 350 french nuclear warheads from landing in the USA.
Hmmmm. I know what the French can do! They can move their capital back to Vichy! 
I heard that the French have now raised their security alert level from “run” to “hide”. That’s one step below “surrender” and two below “collaborate”.
(an oldy but a goodie)
It’s unbelievable that they have such a lack of will to stem this tide of insanity. I was watching the news last night, and some official from the French govt. was asked whether it was suitable to send in the army. He said, “Well, at some point, it might be suitable.”
Nearly 300 towns in turmoil, violence spreading across Europe, and at SOME point it might be suitable? Exactly what point would that be?
Just struck me that our forum has a few people from the UK and from Germany, but none that I know of from France. UK is understandable because Ayn Rand’s books were in English; but, why such a difference in membership between Germany and France, I wonder.
Hm. Being German it’s strange indeed that I found out about Objectivism, since it is completely unknown in Germany. The reason for more Germans in this forum than Frenchmen/women could be (I had this in history class once) the massive pro-American publicity we received after losing WWII. And I must say that even though ‘we’ attack America on political and capitalism on philosophical levels, ‘we’ still have an americanized culture, we listen to American music, have American clothes, watch Hollywood movies, we now even have our own Gangster-rap (which I find completely ridiculous, but hey, it was predictable after all). At least many young people here have a pro-capitalist view of the world. There was a poll on TV before the last election (on TV Total, which is mostly watched by young people and they had over 14% voting for the FDU, the German pro-laissez-fairez-capitalism party). And given that most members of this forum are young, this may explain the fact.
I don’t think I am capable to talk about the French without massive prejudice, so I’d better be quiet about that. But I have to say that I had to laugh a lot reading this thread.
Nearly 300 towns in turmoil, violence spreading across Europe, and at SOME point it [sending in the army] might be suitable? Exactly what point would that be?
That point would be just after the Americans have come over to bail them out (again) and have the enemy on the brink of defeat. That will be the moment when the French will mobilize the army so that they can join in and take credit for the grand, glorious, heroic and noble victory which will demonstrate to the entire world that France is a mighty world power!
That point would be just after the Americans have come over to bail them out (again) and have the enemy on the brink of defeat. That will be the moment when the French will mobilize the army so that they can join in and take credit for the grand, glorious, heroic and noble victory which will demonstrate to the entire world that France is a mighty world power!
But surely they’ll have to bring out the army to surrender!
LOL, you guys crack me up! Hey Felix, how DID that recent election turn out? Did the conservative woman running for prime minister (or whatever, excuse me for being uninformed about her potential title) get elected?? And in your opinion, was she the best candidate?
I think what will happen next is Ray Nagin and Jesse Jackson will come forward with an offer to help out the French by proposing that all of the arrested rioters be offered a chance to resettle in New Orleans - which will also help make up for the post hurricane Katrina loss of constitue…er…I mean…loss of population.
If the French goverment appears willing to make concessions this may be a good time for the elderly nursing home patients to join in with the rioters. Perhaps they can obtain some badly needed air conditioners for next summer (just in case).
Wow. Some of these posts are low blows. And they are hilarious.
On a more serious note, the more I read news articles, the more I see some characteristic of French culture I can’t quite identify. Maybe it is multiculturalism, but it could just be plain cowardice. Chirac didn’t say anything for 10 days.
Here is a quote from the mayor of a Paris suburb, “Last night, Japanese television and Turkish television were in my city hall telling me what should be done. That hurts me.”
This was some of the least pathetic whining from French officials and media. I don’t take part in schadenfreude, but I understand the media frenzy the rest of the world is having.
Nicholas Sarkozy, the French Interior Minister, was the only French official I know of who spoke out strongly against the rioters. He used the word, “Scum.” Since nobody here is from France and this is a little off topic, this might be a poor question, but what does everybody think of him? He seems to have great chances to win the 2007 presidential election if he runs. He seems to have a more “American” sense of life.
It’s unbelievable that they have such a lack of will to stem this tide of insanity. I was watching the news last night, and some official from the French govt. was asked whether it was suitable to send in the army. He said, “Well, at some point, it might be suitable.”
Nearly 300 towns in turmoil, violence spreading across Europe, and at SOME point it might be suitable? Exactly what point would that be?
It took the French nearly two weeks to decide that local governments have the authority to impose curfews on young people. If within 48 hours of the start of these riots, they had ordered out the military and declared that curfew violators would be shot on sight, perhaps this wouldn’t have turned into such a mess.
Capitalism Forever: this is a very predictable response. The French have decided that they must pay off the Muslim criminals. I can hear the politicians saying “If only the welfare system were a bit more generous, we could live in peace.” What they don’t seem to understand is that these thugs perceive such pay-offs as a sign of weakness and they will increase their demands.
Interesting column by Mark Steyn in the Chicago Sun Times:
What they don’t seem to understand is that these thugs perceive such pay-offs as a sign of weakness and they will increase their demands.
Exactly. The proper way to handle these riots would be for the French government to tell the police force to “Open fire!”. Instead, they will tell the French taxpayers to “Open wallet!”.