The Tactics and Threat of the Alt-Right

1 hour ago, Repairman said:

I will ask you again: In your opinion, what actions if any should be taken to prevent further damage?

This thread is an example of the first step that needs to be taken. We need to stand up to the Alt-Right online and expose their trolls. We need to understand their ideology and attack it furiously. We must figure out their tactics and online weapons, and expose them very publicly, in order to help others resist and return fire.

On the political front, we have no choice but to side with the Establishment, despite its corruption. I think we have a better chance of working with and influencing moderate Republicans and Democrats than we’ll ever have with the Alt-Right.

At the moment, it’s absolutely crucial that we push back against the anti-Establishment memes pouring out of the Far Right crusaders.

Conservative writer David French explains how the Alt Right abuses the Conservative Never Trumpers:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441319/donald-trump-alt-right-internet-abuse-never-trump-movement

 

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In the future I might write a detailed analysis of memetic warfare. But for now I hope you’ll Google search some anti-Establishment and Wall Street memes. You’ll notice how clever these Alt-Righters are in ironically combining their message with popular cultural symbols and movements. I won’t pollute this board with their propaganda, but here is one example of how they used the BLM’s popularity to inject their views into the conversation.

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More needs to be said of the political philosophy of the so-called alt-right*. 

This is one of the most revealing things I’ve ever seen:

13 hours ago, Dustin86 said:

Every alt-rightist I have ever met also holds a Malevolent Universe Premise and has a negative view of human nature. Every one, including the non-racial-nationalist ones such as me1, although “degrees of malevolence” vary.

Now that I think about it, there may be a fundamental incompatability between Objectivists and the alt-Right, because now that I think about it, the fundamental thing that unites all of our disparate movements is what you call the “Malevolent Universe Premise”, and the related fact that we take the negative view of human nature.

What are the logical consequences of a philosophy that takes a “negative view of human nature” (a malevolent people premise)? The first thing to go will be individual rights. A negative view of human nature implies that there’s no real basis for holding the non-aggression principle: that one ought to deal with others on the basis of consent. 

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Democracy sucks, the strong should rule the weak, and we could use a good old-fashioned dictator to clean up this mess.

Here is a great article by Andrea Castillo discussing the alt-right neoreactionaries:

https://theumlaut.com/2014/07/29/a-gentle-introduction-to-neoreaction-for-libertarians/

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A puckish new brand of right-wing radical subverts the postmodern power machine each day over Twitter and RSS for fun and praxis. It’s a real hoot to watch. These rudely triggering firebrands are denounced by the people who matter as wrong-thinking zealots of the most problematic variety—to the masochistic vindication (and occasional sacking) of our impish dissidents. Their freakish messages seem almost tailored to demand attention in our outrage-driven world of social media signaling. Libertarians, meet the neoreaction.

Remind you of someone?

The political philosophy of the alt-right is monarchist. If that seems weird or obscure to you, think of it in these terms: what they desire is an authoritarian strong-man to oppose the Establishment Left. That should not be an obscure idea at all, at this point.

What’s interesting is the origin of this political philosophy; quoting from Mencius Moldbug, the father of neoreactionary political philosophy:

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That leaves libertarians. Now, I love libertarians to death. My CPU practically has a permanent open socket to the Mises Institute. In my opinion, anyone who has intentionally chosen to remain ignorant of libertarian (and, in particular, Misesian-Rothbardian) thought, in an era when a couple of mouse clicks will feed you enough high-test libertarianism to drown a moose, is not an intellectually serious person. Furthermore, I am a computer programmer who has read far too much science fiction - two major risk factors for libertarianism. So I could just say, “read Rothbard,” and call it a day.

On the other hand, it is hard to avoid noticing two basic facts about the universe. One is that libertarianism is an extremely obvious idea. The other is that it has never been successfully implemented.

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html

This is not an oddball political movement that’s come out of nowhere - the predecessor of this political philosophy is none other than the quintessentially D2 anarchocapitalism of Rothbardian libertarianism

Think about it - what is the next logical step down the path of D2 politics? It’s the disintegration of the non-aggression principle itself on the basis of a malevolent view of human nature.

Continuing from Castillo’s article:

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Understanding Moldbug’s Cathedral is key to understanding this Dark Enlightenment. Think of it as a public-private partnership that promotes and protects the entrenched secular Puritan paradigm (long story) that neoreactionaries believe runs the world.

The “Cathedral” that Moldbug discusses in his writing is the new secular “religion” that inhabits the media, Hollywood, academia, big government leftists, etc., that propound postmodernism, feminism, egalitarianism, democracy, etc.

Note how this fits with the narrative of how the election is “rigged” against Trump, “a public-private partnership” which includes at its forefront “the media”.

Neoreactionaries see themselves as explicitly “enlightened”, and “beyond libertarianism”:

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Think of the neoreaction as an early attempt to build a kind of “meta-politics without romance.”… It extends our toolkit … beyond analyzing simple economic class to consider culture, status, and tribal political behavior… With their own broadened focus, neoreactionaries believe they see the writing on the wall that we libertarians are simply too scared or myopic to consider.

Unrelenting democracy combined with short-term demographic trends render the libertarian political project doomed…they do not harbor our Hayekian sentimentality for the transformative promise of rigorous liberal intellectualism. Many find our unusual reverence to abstract market forces to be shallow, degrading, or even autistic.

They will defend what even libertarians find indefensible: sexual restraint, gender specialization, temperance, ethnic exclusion, and nationalism. Our great-grandparents’ legacies, more or less. 

One last thing I’ll point out from this article, quoting from the “Dark Enlightenment” writer Nick Land:

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If reaction ever became a popular movement, its few slender threads of bourgeois (or perhaps dreamily ‘aristocratic’) civility wouldn’t hold back the beast for long

Well what we see right now is reactionary political philosophy becoming a popular movement in the Trump campaign. The threat is real, and we’ve been warned: its few slender threads of civility will not hold back the beast for long.

Dismissing these people as “trolls” and attempting to silence them is extremely foolish; you are cutting yourselves off from the very people you need to be persuading.

On 10/21/2016 at 6:39 AM, Dustin86 said:

if you want to attract these people, you have to explain to them how Objectivism is going to help them. They’re not going to be “shamed away” from “collectivism” that you don’t approve of

As Peikoff identified in DIM, we’ve been on a “distintegrating” (D-type) trend in our society for quite some time, and this is the next logical evolution of D-type political philosophy. I think in light of the apparent size and popularity of this mass movement as we see in the Trump campaign, we need to be re-evaluating what was already a very dubious prediction at the end of his book, that society will devolve into the previous, unmixed “stable state” of the M2-type. On the contrary, what we are seeing right now is the progression of the D-type trend into the unmixed “stable state” of the D2-type. That is a much more credible prediction of where society is going now, and we need to be ready for it.

 

* the article quoted above identifies the original meaning of the term “alt-right”; it’s an umbrella term that included the “manosphere”, “neoreactionaries”, HBD (human bio-diversity), the “orthosphere”, the “Dark Enlightenment”, etc.

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This motley band of techno-futurists, traditionalists, seduction artists, funnymen, reluctant Sedevacantists, inconvenient ethnonationalists, monarchists, communitarians, general heretics, homebrewed evolutionists, and one dedicated Jacobite to guide them all is perhaps easier for libertarians to initially understand through what they commonly oppose [the “Cathedral”, as explained above] than for what they separately advocate.

 

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1 hour ago, epistemologue said:

Dismissing these people as “trolls” and attempting to silence them is extremely foolish; you are cutting yourselves off from the very people you need to be persuading.

You’re free to try your hand at “persuading” die-hard malevolent universers and Alt-Right trolls. I think that if you go to places like 4chan /pol/, and witness the meme war first hand, you might realize the futility of debating them. We need to focus on much more important things than having pointless discussions with our sworn enemies.

As for the DIM talk, you make some interesting points, but I’m gonna reread Ominous Parallels and DIM Hypothesis before giving you my take on that. 

9 hours ago, MisterSwig said:

This thread is an example of the first step that needs to be taken. We need to stand up to the Alt-Right online and expose their trolls. We need to understand their ideology and attack it furiously. We must figure out their tactics and online weapons, and expose them very publicly, in order to help others resist and return fire.

On the political front, we have no choice but to side with the Establishment, despite its corruption. I think we have a better chance of working with and influencing moderate Republicans and Democrats than we’ll ever have with the Alt-Right.

At the moment, it’s absolutely crucial that we push back against the anti-Establishment memes pouring out of the Far Right crusaders.

MisterSwig,

This thread has been my only introduction to this Alt-Right movement. Their ideas are not new ideas, but rather very old, in fact, ancient ideas. I agree with you that engaging such irrational persons in polemics would be futile. It’s their tactical use of the internet that concerns me. If they are sophisticated troublemakers, launching their attacks via cyber-space, the damage to their victims could be severe, costing them their livelihoods, inducing fear, even unleashing the occasional follower-fanatic on an anti-life mission.

I still don’t believe anything openly organized could last very long before they are investigated, infiltrated, and driven back to the proverbial shadow-world in which they now cower. Nonetheless, they have been reported in credible sources to have struck terror in the form of online harassment on a scale that would warrant police action; I don’t know that nothing or anything is being done at this time, but I can imagine the FBI is aware of it. If you have the means to “fight back” I wouldn’t discourage you, but it would be a job for someone with both the technical skills and connections to the federal Department of Justice, otherwise you may find yourself in violation of some illegal online practices.

And I don’t believe it’s necessary to side with anybody, “Establishment” or “anti-Establishment.” That is, unless there is some connection to a formal investigation. In such a case, siding with the “Established” authorities would be best. And as I alluded to earlier, this begs the question: Will we accept new restrictions of internet freedom regardless of their intentions?

(Is the term, “Establishment” an anti-concept? anybody?)

17 hours ago, MisterSwig said:

I will note this down as yet another failure to turn a malevolent-universer. How many of you Alt-Right trolls are working this board?

Also, I’m not falling for your “don’t worry about the Alt-Right” meme. Even if most Americans were addicted to optimism, that doesn’t preclude them from surrendering to the threats of the Alt-Right or falling victim to the movement’s hopeful dream of a shiny new white America.

I am not a white nationalist but consider myself alt-right because I’ve considered myself so from the time when the term encompassed not just white nationalists but monarchists, those who are anti-democracy, also certain anti-feminists identified as such, etc. The way you are using the term, which is becoming more and more common today (mostly thanks to the media) but is not the original definition, is “alt-right = white nationalist”.

5 hours ago, Dustin86 said:

I am not a white nationalist but consider myself alt-right because I’ve considered myself so from the time when the term encompassed not just white nationalists but monarchists, those who are anti-democracy, also certain anti-feminists identified as such, etc. The way you are using the term, which is becoming more and more common today (mostly thanks to the media) but is not the original definition, is “alt-right = white nationalist”.

Correct… I don’t think white nationalism (a la stormfront, etc) is a part of the “alt-right” at all, actually.

5 hours ago, Dustin86 said:

I am not a white nationalist but consider myself alt-right because I’ve considered myself so from the time when the term encompassed not just white nationalists but monarchists, those who are anti-democracy, also certain anti-feminists identified as such, etc. The way you are using the term, which is becoming more and more common today (mostly thanks to the media) but is not the original definition, is “alt-right = white nationalist”.

Dustin86,

While this is no great revelation, thank you for the clarification. Why do you believe you have the right to identify as Alt-Right, when there are positions which you disagree in their ideology?

Do you believe you have a right to an independence of mind, given the collectivism of Alt-Right ideology? Or to selectively choose an individualized “world view,” for lack of a better term? Could you site something that differentiates your views from that of your typical Alt-Right person?

1 hour ago, epistemologue said:

Correct… I don’t think white nationalism (a la stormfront, etc) is a part of the “alt-right” at all, actually.

Where are you getting this from? Wikipedia attributes the term “alternative right” to Richard Bertrand Spencer, a white nationalist.

7 hours ago, Repairman said:

Dustin86,

While this is no great revelation, thank you for the clarification. Why do you believe you have the right to identify as Alt-Right, when there are positions which you disagree in their ideology?

Do you believe you have a right to an independence of mind, given the collectivism of Alt-Right ideology? Or to selectively choose an individualized “world view,” for lack of a better term? Could you site something that differentiates your views from that of your typical Alt-Right person?

There is no single alt-right ideology. Like I said before, what unifies the alt-right is a malevolent universe premise and a negative view of human nature, a rejection of the Enlightenment view of human nature which is optimistic.

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14 hours ago, Dustin86 said:

I am not a white nationalist but consider myself alt-right because I’ve considered myself so from the time when the term encompassed not just white nationalists but monarchists, those who are anti-democracy, also certain anti-feminists identified as such, etc.

So you willingly embraced a movement that welcomed white nationalists? You didn’t get enough racists in the conservative or libertarian movements, so you kept stepping to the right until you found something more Nazi-like?

The Alt-Right may have started out as a mishmash of reactionary ideologies. But it’s increasingly coalescing into a mob of hardcore white nationalists. That’s why we aren’t talking about the Alt-Right monarchists.

Besides, monarchism is perfectly compatible with white nationalism. The racists will be happy to provide you with a mystical authority for your absolute ruler. In fact, the mob at 4chan is already forming some weird religion around a god named Kek, from whom meme magic originates. They also refer to Trump as the God Emperor. Not sure how seriously all of it is meant to be taken. But there it is.

Maybe we should start calling it the white monarcho-nationalist movement. How’s that?

9 hours ago, epistemologue said:

Correct… I don’t think white nationalism (a la stormfront, etc) is a part of the “alt-right” at all, actually.

You seem to follow Dustin around this forum quite a bit. I’ve noticed.

Would you also like to register as an agent of the Alt-Right? Are you shitposting here?

31 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

So you willingly embraced a movement that welcomed white nationalists? You didn’t get enough racists in the conservative or libertarian movements, so you kept stepping to the right until you found something more Nazi-like?

Maybe we should start calling it the white monarcho-nationalist movement. How’s that?

It wasn’t like that. I’ve been part of the Alt-Right since the very beginning.

We were all declared “beyond the pale” by the “mainstream”. We all kind of “found each other”. It’s not like we all hoarded around white nationalists. They found us.

Our strength is in our togetherness and interconnectedness, not in our supposed “internet-savviness”. The Establishment’s weakness is in its atomized individualism.

On 10/22/2016 at 4:32 PM, MisterSwig said:

We need to focus on much more important things than having pointless discussions with our sworn enemies.

We don’t want to be your “sworn enemies”. I know nothing about this “mystical god named Kek” or anything like that. I think you’re confusing 4chan with the alt-Right.

There is a great deal that Objectivists can learn from Alt-Righters and vice versa.

1 hour ago, Dustin86 said:

We don’t want to be your “sworn enemies”.

In principle it’s largely varying forms of monarchism or fascism then, if you mean non-mainstream non-leftist views that aren’t pro-individual. It is a “sworn enemy” as far as not being compatible at all. I thought about it before and made a thread about it. (White supremacists are worst of all both factually and respect-wise, that might be a tangent). As far as I see, Alt-right has been co-opted by white supremacists, regardless of what it was before.

37 minutes ago, Eiuol said:

It is a “sworn enemy” as far as not being compatible at all.

So anybody who you decide is not “compatible” with you is your “sworn enemy”, even if they offer you an olive branch?

15 minutes ago, Dustin86 said:

So anybody who you decide is not “compatible” with you is your “sworn enemy”, even if they offer you an olive branch?

Should I consider this dialog a form of olive branch?

 

1 hour ago, Dustin86 said:

There is a great deal that Objectivists can learn from Alt-Righters and vice versa.

What do you suppose I could learn from an Alt-Righter?

1 hour ago, Dustin86 said:

So anybody who you decide is not “compatible” with you is your “sworn enemy”, even if they offer you an olive branch?

By “at all” I mean there’s virtually nothing compatible whatsoever about an alt-righter, even less than radical leftists. Whether an -individual- self-professed alt-righter has compatibilities is a different story. Being “not left” doesn’t mean your political goals would at all be the same. I don’t even see leftism per se as a threat as much as the deplorable aspects of the alt-right umbrella (i.e. white supremacists, and as far as your perspective Dustin, you should see them as ruining any possible inkling of rationality in alt-right thinking).

MisterSwig, if you think Epist is “shitposting”, look at his earlier post in this thread.