Altruism Revisited

As I was rereading Atlas Shrugged, I came across a passage that reminded me of an issue that I had never really clearly resolved: Rand’s view of altruism.

 

The passage is:

 

“I shall charge you for your room and board–it is against our rules to provide the unearned sustenance of another human being. Some of us have wives and children, but there is a mutual trade involved in that, and a mutual payment”–he glanced at her–“of a kind I am not entitled to collect.”

 

 

 

Now in order to discuss this and avoid confusion we need to agree on terms and I’m more than happy to use Rand’s terms. I’ll offer these (feel free to correct):

 

Altruism: The welfare of other people is the measurement of ethical action.

 

Sacrifice: The surrendering of a greater value for a lesser value.

 

Selfishness: Using one’s own welfare is the measurement of ethical action.

 

Benevolence: Mutual respect for the values of the self and of other people.

 

Now, to my point:

 

I have argued in these forums and elsewhere with objectivists and libertarians of various stripes about what Rand meant in her condemnation of altruism and whether she was right to condemn it. The reason that I gave the above definitions is that often people criticize Rand on the basis that she was opposed to helping others. A moderate position that many (e.g. libertarians) take absent force, there is nothing wrong with altruism, often called charity.

 

I believe that the passage quoted above suggests that Rand was opposed to more than forced altruism. Altruism, as defined above, applies whether or not someone is forcing you. If you are simply evaluating two options it is wrong, Rand says, to weigh the choice on the basis of the welfare of others irrespective of whether there is a punsihing authority involved or not. An ethical choice, she would say, must be made on the basis of value to one’s self. This include’s not just the beggar on the street but one’s own wife and children who must pay their own way in some sense. To give the starkest example, if you had to choose between your own life and that of your wife or children it would be immoral to sacrifice yourself for them.

 

Now there is a lot of wiggle room in the area of happiness (I prefer Tara Smith’s flourishing concept). As the saying goes, when momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. This, then, leads to a lot of complicated analysis of mutual benefit and domestic harmony. Things can be even more difficult when we are considering charity. If I give to a beggar on the street am I being altruistic? What if it gives me the warm and fuzzies? More importantly, it is often prudent in social situations to be the first to give and to develop a reputation for benevolence absent mechanism to enforce mutuality.

 

Which brings us to the problem of benevolence. Often it is stated as a condition: I will respect your rights if you respect mine. Otherwise, my respect for your rights is unconnected to your respect for mine. I can’t control your respect for my rights. At most I can respect your rights conditionally. People often imagine enforcement mechanisms where none exist. The real choice is often between giving without certainty of getting or not giving. Without an enforcement mechanism benevolence can look a lot like sacrifice and altruism.

 

(There have been some older threads on this topic but none were focused where I intended to focus so I decided not to hijak them.)

What is your issue as presented in one sentence?

I don’t think I had a single issue in mind. Partly I wanted to check my argument. For example, it does seem to me that Rand was not making the distinction that libertarians do.

But I think there is a one-sentence claim that might help get the discussion going: In an uncertain world, being altruistic is useful.

 

It’s useful to think about other people’s needs. It’s often useful to err on the side of giving.

If it’s useful, is it altruistic?

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Ayn Rand provided an explicit answer:

 

"What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.

Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: “No.” Altruism says: “Yes.” 

Faith and Force: The Destroyers of the Modern World,”

Philosophy: Who Needs It, 61 

 

As for relations inside of the family, they are based on the hierarchy of values and their mutual trade. As in any voluntary trade the result is not a sacrifice but mutual benefit.

If it’s useful, is it altruistic?

 

Well, that’s my point. I was carful to present the definition to avoid just such confusion. Suffice it to say that it’s not easy, in an uncertain world, to distinguish.

Ayn Rand provided an explicit answer:

 

"What is the moral code of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.

Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice—which means; self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction—which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: “No.” Altruism says: “Yes.”  Faith and Force: The Destroyers of the Modern World,”

Philosophy: Who Needs It, 61

 

As for relations inside of the family, they are based on the hierarchy of values and their mutual trade. As in any voluntary trade the result is not a sacrifice but mutual benefit.

 

I am not challenging Rand’s defense of the right of man to exist for his own sake nor her accusations against those who assert that we have a moral duty to live for others and deny ourselves.

 

But I am suggesting that trade is not a good general model for the reasons I cited in the OP. The goal of benevolence is mutual benefit but the lines blur in the context of uncertainty.

As far as I understand Objectevism has no problem with benevolence as long as it’s not sacrificial. It even doesn’t have to involve mutual benefit, simple empathy will be a sufficient reason. For example, as Ayn Rand once observed, if you are running a train and it happened to run empty, you may allow to some people who genuinely cannot afford ticket to have a free ride. On the larger scale one should help people who deserve help, who are in essence not parasites and need temporary help due to difficult circumstances. However, benevolence is not major virtue and well being of others is not your standard of value. The situation is different when the person you help has a high position in your hierarchy of values-a friend, a lover, a family member.

As far as I understand Objectevism has no problem with benevolence as long as it’s not sacrificial. It even doesn’t have to involve mutual benefit, simple empathy will be a sufficient reason. For example, as Ayn Rand once observed, if you are running a train and it happened to run empty, you may allow to some people who genuinely cannot afford ticket to have a free ride. On the larger scale one should help people who deserve help, who are in essence not parasites and need temporary help due to difficult circumstances. However, benevolence is not major virtue and well being of others is not your standard of value. The situation is different when the person you help has a high position in your hierarchy of values-a friend, a lover, a family member.

 

Good example, thank you, The quoted passage implied a lot more rigidity. There is a big gulf between sacrifice as she defines it and certainty of beneficial trade.

“…the basic absolute[of altruism] is self-sacrifice – which means self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction…”[AR]

With that, the irreducible primary of altruism, I think Rand was casting the net wider than “The welfare of other people is the measurement of ethical action”, as you defined it.

Self-abnegation = surrender of one’s mind. To whom, or to what?

It would appear: to the morality, judgment and values of another person; or to those of ‘people’ en masse and the pervasive philosophy of the time (altruism-collectivism); or to a mystical ideal. It could be viewed as suicide… of the mind, and mind-independence.

Then, self-denial and self-destruction also make sense as cause and effect of self-sacrifice.

So, although altruism has its root in “service to others”, it is presupposed by mind-sacrifice to the minds and authority of others.

For that reason I think Rand implied altruism as not only existing ‘for’ others, but- as I see it- also ‘by’ and ‘through’ them (their sanction, their standards, their values and existence) - too. All the outcome of one’s moral timidity and guilt - or by coercion.

Framed this way, it follows that benevolence from one toward others is impossible here - since not only are they permitted to be one’s spiritual and/or physical masters - and being selfless renders one’s selfish respect/benevolence to others redundant; but too, those who take sacrifice as their due are the last people on earth to merit benevolence.

Benevolence (and charity) can only (and will) eventuate when men are independent of each other by personal morally selfish choice.

“…the basic absolute[of altruism] is self-sacrifice – which means self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction…”[AR]

With that, the irreducible primary of altruism, I think Rand was casting the net wider than “The welfare of other people is the measurement of ethical action”, as you defined it.

Self-abnegation = surrender of one’s mind. To whom, or to what?

It would appear: to the morality, judgment and values of another person; or to those of ‘people’ en masse and the pervasive philosophy of the time (altruism-collectivism); or to a mystical ideal. It could be viewed as suicide… of the mind, and mind-independence.

Then, self-denial and self-destruction also make sense as cause and effect of self-sacrifice.

So, although altruism has its root in “service to others”, it is presupposed by mind-sacrifice to the minds and authority of others.

For that reason I think Rand implied altruism as not only existing ‘for’ others, but- as I see it- also ‘by’ and ‘through’ them (their sanction, their standards, their values and existence) - too. All the outcome of one’s moral timidity and guilt - or by coercion.

Framed this way, it follows that benevolence from one toward others is impossible here - since not only are they permitted to be one’s spiritual and/or physical masters - and being selfless renders one’s selfish respect/benevolence to others redundant; but too, those who take sacrifice as their due are the last people on earth to merit benevolence.

Benevolence (and charity) can only (and will) eventuate when men are independent of each other by personal morally selfish choice.

 

I think you make some good points here but, again, I think we need to avoid fixating on the extreme and missing the most common situations. 

 

Surely Rand is not condeming trust. We would not get very far in life without trusting others.

 

But when does trust cross the line to blind obedience to authority?

 

One reason that this interests me is that I do meet people who will not act without certainty of profit and it is my experience that they tend to live impoverished lives.

 

 

One reason that this interests me is that I do meet people who will not act without certainty of profit and it is my experience that they tend to live impoverished lives.

Hola Hernan, 

 

It’s about taking risk. People who never act without the certainty of profit are people who don’t invest. In my experience those kind of folks usually do trust their very limited and small family and friends circles.

 

In the passage you quoted Ayn Rand means John Galt could not honorably collect Dagny’s body at that time. 

 

d

Hernan,

The passage you quoted implies that it was against the rules in the valley for Galt to have a house-guest. Would you agree?

If so, do you take this to imply Rand thought one should charge house guests?

It’s about taking risk. People who never act without the certainty of profit are people who don’t invest. In my experience those kind of folks usually do trust their very limited and small family and friends circles.

 

Yeah, risk is probably a good way to conceptualize it. So Rand is not condemning risk taking in human relations. But I would go further: in many if not most social situations the upside opportunity is far greater than the downside risk; risk is frequently asymetrical.

 

In the passage you quoted Ayn Rand means John Galt could not honorably collect Dagny’s body at that time. 

 

That part didn’t concern me, though it is interesting. I was focusing on the rest, that it would be verboten to “provide unearned sustenance.” That sounds pretty hard.

Hernan,

The passage you quoted implies that it was against the rules in the valley for Galt to have a house-guest. Would you agree?

If so, do you take this to imply Rand thought one should charge house guests?

 

I read Galt’s Gulch as Randian Heaven though there were some rules peculiar to the circumstances such as the one month vacation. My reading is that this is a general moral claim, that people ought not have dependents who don’t pay their way. Am I misreading it?

Yeah, risk is probably a good way to conceptualize it. So Rand is not condemning risk taking in human relations. But I would go further: in many if not most social situations the upside opportunity is far greater than the downside risk; risk is frequently asymetrical.

 

 

That part didn’t concern me, though it is interesting. I was focusing on the rest, that it would be verboten to “provide unearned sustenance.” That sounds pretty hard.

Risk is asymmetrical that is why it requires judgement. 

 

In the case of the valley, Galt already knew Dagny, he could trust her inside his home. After that, it is the rules of the valley, (and everything John Galt was fighting for) that one earns his or her own sustenance. 

 

After the emergency (the crash for which she wasn’t charged rescue fees) order is restored and the rules go back into place. 

After that, it is the rules of the valley, (and everything John Galt was fighting for) that one earns his or her own sustenance. 

 

This is really want I want to focus on here. The cited passage (and the sign over Galt’s power station) seem to express something harder than mere judgement about long term mutual benefit. The fact that Galt felt the need to explain wives and children certainly reflects this.

 

(I think I noted elsewhere in these forums that Objectivists tend to have much smaller families than average, if they marry at all.)

I think you make some good points here but, again, I think we need to avoid fixating on the extreme and missing the most common situations. 

 

Surely Rand is not condeming trust. We would not get very far in life without trusting others.

 

But when does trust cross the line to blind obedience to authority?

 

One reason that this interests me is that I do meet people who will not act without certainty of profit and it is my experience that they tend to live impoverished lives.

But extremes are the parameters which have to be focused on, not fixated upon. In a sense, how does one comprehend rational selfishness without observing and understanding self-sacrifice and altruism? We know that a generally altruistic person acts largely from duty to others, not from benevolence. Conversely, we know that a rational egoist, by definition, cannot act out of obligation - and when he’s helpful and shows good will to others, it is true benevolence.

I don’t see benevolence as ‘value for value’ mutual benefit - that’s something else. I think one approaches the world at large with the presupposition that everyone has value in themselves too, and will not demand your self-sacrifice to them. (Until or unless you discover otherwise) Equally, you cannot possibly even consider their self-sacrifice to yourself either. Maybe that’s all there is to it: the acknowledgement of other people’s values.

Initially, of course there is always a basic level of trust for people, which should be distinguished from benevolence: although I agree they overlap.

And it’s not merely the explicit “blind obedience to authority”, but a general, implicit diminishing of ‘self-authority’ that is one’s early warning sign, I think.

But extremes are the parameters which have to be focused on, not fixated upon. In a sense, how does one comprehend rational selfishness without observing and understanding self-sacrifice and altruism? We know that a generally altruistic person acts largely from duty to others, not from benevolence. Conversely, we know that a rational egoist, by definition, cannot act out of obligation - and when he’s helpful and shows good will to others, it is true benevolence.

I don’t see benevolence as ‘value for value’ mutual benefit - that’s something else. I think one approaches the world at large with the presupposition that everyone has value in themselves too, and will not demand your self-sacrifice to them. (Until or unless you discover otherwise) Equally, you cannot possibly even consider their self-sacrifice to yourself either. Maybe that’s all there is to it: the acknowledgement of other people’s values.

Initially, of course there is always a basic level of trust for people, which should be distinguished from benevolence: although I agree they overlap.

And it’s not merely the explicit “blind obedience to authority”, but a general, implicit diminishing of ‘self-authority’ that is one’s early warning sign, I think.

 

I want to be careful because I do not mean to disagree with what you are saying. Rather, I wish to acknowledge your points and move the conversation elsewhere.

 

So, yes, it is useful to consider extremes. Let us acknowledge the pathology of self-sacrifice and altruism at those extremes. In the common world, though, I doubt you will find any genuine altruists though you’ll find many posing as such if only to win brownie points.

 

Trust, too, can obviously be taken to absurd extremes. Commonly over-trusting is probably a bigger problem than over-altruism. Although I comlained above about untrusting paranoids I’ve also seem my share of overtrusting fools.

Oh, orlright then. :wink: