Canada Votes

Current Events
1

Canadians are marching toward the voting booths soon, and it looks as if they will bring in the Conservative Party of Canada this time.

Child care seems to be the big issue this election:

For Americans here, I would give a gross estimate to say as the CPC are about as liberal as the most extreme Democrats in the US. They believe in universal health care and are committing billions more to it in their platform, however they are the economic conservatives in Canada. They want to provide tax credits to parents with children under 6, and the money will be able to be spent on anything. The Liberals have criticized this idea because it does not set up a government program ensuring the money will be spent on children.

The Liberal Party of Canada are the current ruling party and have been in power for 12 years. Their agenda is slightly more liberal and it includes setting up a national daycare program for children this term. They are also campaigning for a nationwide handgun ban. The Libs were involved in a corruption scandal where they used taxpayer money to fund their political campaigns which has cost them their popularity.

The trailing New Democrat Party (NDP) usually take third place. I think they will take alot of votes from the Liberals this election because of the scandal. The NDP is running on the complete nationalization of child care, I believe–which is a ban on private daycare or at least what I imagine to be much stricter regulation of it. From what I know if this market though, it mostly operates “under the table.” I had a wonderful young neighbour who took care of some children to support herself and her son and she was paid in cash. The NDP often campaigns on environmental issues and was rated as having a better environmentalist policy than the Green Party (which will garner about 1 million votes).

With regard to finances, many people are afraid of bringing the Conservatives to power. The Liberals claim the CPC will create government deficits, and the Liberals often cite their own record of government surpluses as proof that they will handle the economy well. As someone with basic knowledge of economics, I am somewhat puzzled on this type of argument, but it works for most Canadians. To me, it is simple to see that a surplus is just the result of taking more taxes in than they are spending on social programs.

The Liberals promise an income tax reduction, and the Conservatives offer a reduction in the GST (a federal sales tax) from 7% to 5%. Both are committed to the Kyoto protocol on climate change, which is to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions.

I am voting for the CPC this election. The race is between the CPC and NDP in my riding anyway, and I do not like the socialists.

Edit: I would like to add that the NDP get third place out of the strictly national parties. The separatist Bloc Quebecois will probably have third place overall. They have over 50% of the support in Quebec, the province with 1/3 of Canada’s population.

2

Hmmm… It sounds like you got one group of left-wing wacko’s fighting against another group of left-wing wacko’s. We are going to have to start treating Canada like their Cuban buddies pretty soon.

3

Actually, the last time I checked the Tories were not going to sign Kyoto. They are also commited to semi-privitization of health care.

I find it funny that the Green party gets so many votes considering their platform involves nothing except environmental issues. If they were elected in I don’t think they’d know what to do. :worry:

4

Does the CPC have a “socially conservative” agenda too? Things like porn-control, anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, and the like?

5

I would give a gross estimate to say as the CPC are about as liberal as the most extreme Democrats in the US.

I’d agree that’s a pretty gross estimate. :slight_smile: It is true that anyone listening to the leader, Stephen Harper, in this election would be hard-pressed to distinguish him from many US Democrats, but Harper is no Howard Dean, no Michael Moore. Indeed, before he “moderated” himself to become electable in the leftist Canadian political climate, Harper was quite good ideologically as head of the National Citizens Coalition. The NCC is an oasis of individual rights defenders in a desert of the usual statist think tanks and advocacy groups here. The Liberals have tried to discredit Harper by quoting some of his statements from that era.

If he is elected, it will be interesting to see if he moves back toward the better ideas. I don’t hold out much hope of that, but at least there is hope with him whereas there’s none with the other parties. I also think the Conservatives are better than many Democrats in that the Conservatives are (in general) not advocating the institution of new statist measures; they are just not advocating as forcefully for repeal of existing ones as they should.

As a good indicator of how the far left in Canadian politics views the prospect of a Harper win, see the piece below, which announces the formation of an ad hoc group designed to scare electors into preventing it. Except for the bit about reproductive rights (and there is simply no chance that abortion will be outlawed in Canada by any party) and, less so, on the same-sex marriage issue, I hope the author is right!

Mark

Today, a broad new coalition of social justice organizations launched a strong warning to Canadians: a Stephen Harper government would roll back decades of social progress in Canada.

Called the “Think Twice Coalition,” representatives from childcare, Aboriginal, women’s rights, health care, human rights, gay and lesbian rights, environmental protection, arts, and advocacy groups and trade unions came together to express their deep concern that a Harper government would:

* Privatize social programs and health care;

* Kill the recently-negotiated federal-provincial national day care

program;

* Abandon the recently-negotiated agreement with the First Nations to

alleviate their housing and health care crisis;

* Renege on Kyoto commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by

2012;

* Junk pay equity plans and a new national strategy for people with

disabilities;

* Reduce support for the arts and public broadcasting;

* Reopen divisive issues such as same-sex marriage and women’s

rights to reproductive choice;

* Reopen the Charter to insert private property rights, which have

been used in the U.S. to slash environmental safeguards;

* Cut taxes to big corporations; and

* Ramp up military integration with the Pentagon.

6

I too will be voting conservative in the election Monday. A sad choice considering the other options: Socialism and Socialism lite.

For anyone interested, here’s a website for a new Canadian party, “The Freedom Party of Canada.” http://www.freedomparty.ca/htm/en/home.htm.

They claim to be the only party that stands up for pure capitalism, as defined by Ayn Rand. Check out their platform, it contains quotes from Mises and links to Fraser institute etc… They will be running candidates in 2008 apparently.

7

It’s painful for me to read these things about canada considering that they are so close to us. I just hope nobody in the white house get any more stupid ideas.

8

What are the “stupid” ideas from the White House?

9

Actually, the last time I checked the Tories were not going to sign Kyoto. They are also commited to semi-privitization of health care.

I may be wrong about Kyoto, but the health care issue you brought up just seems insane to me. They’re going to be throwing billions more at it, even more than Martin has promised. By insane, I mean politically insane, in that it would lose them an election. Nobody will touch that sacred cow.

10

I may be wrong about Kyoto, but the health care issue you brought up just seems insane to me. They’re going to be throwing billions more at it, even more than Martin has promised. By insane, I mean politically insane, in that it would lose them an election. Nobody will touch that sacred cow.

As someone who works in health care, who works in the “trenches” (so to speak), I can assure you that the pressure to maintain the monolithic status of our public health care system does not come from the majority of doctors and nurses (or patients for that matter). The political machine comprised of intellectuals, pressure groups, unions, and professional organizations wield so much influence over the public, everybody is scared to death at the prospect of “privatization” in health care.

“Privatization is not in the public good” they say. Whose good? The public. Who is the public? Their infallible and omnipotent spokesmen: the politicians and statist intellectuals.

I’ve been blogging on some health care issues here: http://therationalnurse.thinkertothinker.com

11

A new poll showed majority support for semi-privitization.

I find it funny that the argument used most often in favour of keeping public health care is our “National identity”. I’ve actually heard intellectuals say they’d rather have thousands of people die due to lack of good health care than lose our Canadian-ness.

Also something more apparent: Nobody talks about the person’s right to spend their money. It’s all about the end for Canada, never the means.

12

It is interesting that news items from the U.K. mention political debates about some limited private-sector involvement in the health industry. Sounds like folks in the U.K. and Canada now understand that “public” health care does not work. Positive change is likely to be slow though… probably decades.

13

A new poll showed majority support for semi-privitization.

I find it funny that the argument used most often in favour of keeping public health care is our “National identity”. I’ve actually heard intellectuals say they’d rather have thousands of people die due to lack of good health care than lose our Canadian-ness.

Also something more apparent: Nobody talks about the person’s right to spend their money. It’s all about the end for Canada, never the means.

Somewhat related to what you’re saying, I just had an experience with a colleague at work. We were having a conversation about the election, and it was stated by this person that she is “very very afraid of Stephen Harper getting into power.” I asked her what she means. She responded by saying, “he wants to make us much more like the America, and I hate Americans.” (Her emphasis was on the word hate). This utter and complete irrationality is very common in Canada when it comes to America. People don’t even know what they hate, they just have this deep seated hatred for this unidentified and undefined idea about the US.

I can’t emphasize to any Americans that might be reading this how this is not some aberration from some ignorant quack, but the common sentiment among supposedly intelligent and educated Canadians. I hear it very frequently. This smug elitism, which people don’t even see in themselves, is so pervasive up here.

When people make comments like the one above, I usually ask, “what if I said I hated black people, or I hate Italians, or hate muslims? Do you not see the fact that your comment is completely illogical by making such a broad and sweeping judgement of a whole nation of individuals?” This is when the evasiveness sets in, and some excuse is made about how the Americans are the world’s “bullies” or something. Urghh!! :confused:

Here’s another example. My girlfriend had an Ayn Rand book at work (she’s a school teacher) and one of her colleagues saw her with it and said, “urgh, Ayn Rand? I hate her, she’s just too American for me.”

I have to stop my rant before I have an aneurysm or something. The most frustrating thing is that you can’t even begin to debate these people. They don’t offer a premise, a thought out idea, or even open themselves to persuasion. It’s pure and unadulterated emotionalism. The truth is that our political leaders (on the left of course) cash in on this. It’s not the same situation, but it’s the same principle that allowed Hitler to cash in on the anti-semitism in prewar Germany. Not that Canada is heading inexorably towards dictatorship, but the Canada is ripe with the demagogic, hateful, and irrational sentiments toward America and Americans. Besides, Canada barely has a military and we still depend on the US for “hard power” as some recent news reports from Afghanistan tells us.

14

As someone who works in health care, who works in the “trenches” (so to speak), I can assure you that the pressure to maintain the monolithic status of our public health care system does not come from the majority of doctors and nurses (or patients for that matter). http://therationalnurse.thinkertothinker.com

Andrew, I was considering a career in health care before. It seems that all of the nurse’s unions and other unions are chanting the loudest for more nationalization, government funding, and regulation in BC. They are working hard to prevent an “American-style” system ‘where the quality of your health care is determined by your wallet.’

Do you know of any groups in Canada that I can support that directly work toward privatized health care? Deaths, undue stress and prolonged sickness in my family and within myself could have been saved with even a semi-private system.

15

Hey guys…hope things get better with a Conservative government in Canada. I’ve been doing my best to follow the elections on the net. I had been reading the election results live-blogging over at Captain’s Quarters (who, since he is in the US can get around those stupid Election results black-out laws). Unfortunately I think half the conservatives in Canada had the same idea and have crashed his site already. Looks like I have to wait an hour for C-SPAN to pick up coverage. Oh well.

16

She responded by saying, “he wants to make us much more like the America, and I hate Americans.”

Yeah, most Americans don’t much like Canadiens either. One day we’re just gonna have to send the Salvation Army up there to defeat the Socialist menace, ay. :stuck_out_tongue:

17

A lot of Americans make fun of Canadians, but I rarely find them making serious remarks. When serious remarks are made, they are regarding Canada’s liberalism, and the hatred is absent. On the other hand, I hear a lot of Americans denouncing America with the full force of emotionalism.

18

Do you know of any groups in Canada that I can support that directly work toward privatized health care? Deaths, undue stress and prolonged sickness in my family and within myself could have been saved with even a semi-private system.

Off hand, the only organization I can think of is the Fraser Institute which is based out of B.C. Check out their website and their report on Health Care. A world wide comparison of health care systems shows that Canadians essentially get the the least “bang for their buck” when compared with health care systems around the world, all of which include some form of privatization.

Regarding “American style health care”, it is interesting to note that most Canadians are ignorant of the fact that the US has an extensively gov’t controlled and highly socialized health care system. In fact, the US instituted gov’t paid health care before Canada ever did. It is the degree of freedom that still remains in the US health care system that allows it to still be a world leader in technology and pharmacological advancements, yet it is also the degree of mixtures (between freedom and controls) that also makes it one of the most complicated, expensive, and seemingly unsustainable.

One thing I notice working in Health Care, and it is one of the ultimate causes of the inevitable downfall of “universal health care” is that every new advancement in health care becomes a new alleged “right” for everyone to have. There is absolutely no objective way to determine where to draw the line and say, “ok, this new technology costs $100 000 to use, it has little known efficacy, so we can’t spend public funds on it.” You can only infer inevitably rising costs with every latest therapy. There are no market forces that work in all other sectors (ie. look at the dropping prices of plasma tv, wireless technology, etc…).

19

One thing I notice working in Health Care, and it is one of the ultimate causes of the inevitable downfall of “universal health care” is that every new advancement in health care becomes a new alleged “right” for everyone to have.

A similar thing happens in the U.S., even with “private” health insurance. If a new drug or treatment becomes available, the insurance companies can find no argument to disallow it under their plans. Many drugs and treatments are for “illnesses” that would not have been termed illnesses a decade ago. Advertisements on TV are required to tell the consumer that they do not have to live with some condition any longer: whether it’s yellow toenails, redness on the face, moodiness, or whatever. It’s good to have these lifestyle improvements. However, because of insurance, the consumer often sees all treatments as costing the same, regardless of urgency. So, consumers make decisions that are not based on the full cost.

20

A similar thing happens in the U.S., even with “private” health insurance. If a new drug or treatment becomes available, the insurance companies can find no argument to disallow it under their plans. Many drugs and treatments are for “illnesses” that would not have been termed illnesses a decade ago. Advertisements on TV are required to tell the consumer that they do not have to live with some condition any longer: whether it’s yellow toenails, redness on the face, moodiness, or whatever. It’s good to have these lifestyle improvements. However, because of insurance, the consumer often sees all treatments as costing the same, regardless of urgency. So, consumers make decisions that are not based on the full cost.

This is so true. I am quite cynical about this, because I can’t see how it can be sustained. Every new drug or technology that comes out, no matter how much it costs relative to its efficacy, is deemed to be a right for everyone to have simply because he “needs it.” I know this sounds cold and heartless coming from a health care provider whom is supposed to be all compassionate, but the truth is that a total 3rd party payment system – whether it’s the insurance mandates in the US or public health care in Canada – cannot sustain itself without some type of inevitable collapse. I see it sort of like the collapse of communism (aside from the obviously same collectivist-altruist premises at the root of communism) because years and years went by in which intellectuals lauded the Soviet Union for its supposed moral and productive superiority, meanwhile the intellectuals and the Russian leaders blinded themselves to the truth until the whole thing collapsed. I realize you can’t predict the future, and it’s not exactly the same, but I see many principles applying.