Seriously. Compare and contrast the magnitude of your fear to something else, is Jesus the most scary thing ever or not so much?
I think its kind of creepy because I cannot get my mind around the mentality. Perhaps this is a type fear of the unknown.
I’m more afraid of being mugged, actually. I’ve had only one confrontation in the last couple months fortunately nothing came of it.
What brings this on is this video of Sarah Palin at a church.
Seriously. Compare and contrast the magnitude of your fear to something else, is Jesus the most scary thing ever or not so much?
I’m not afraid of him, 'cuz he’s good and dead. I’m scared shitless of his disciples.
Does Jesus scare you?
*whispers* I’m not really at liberty to say… I think He’s watching.
Seriously. Compare and contrast the magnitude of your fear to something else, is Jesus the most scary thing ever or not so much?
I suppose it depends on what one compares it to. For instance, given the context in which the question usually arises, one can turn it around and ask: does Clinton era policy and economy scare you? or does a $0.50/gallon carbon-tax on gas scare you?
*whispers* I’m not really at liberty to say… I think He’s watching.
You’re okay; that’s just Santa Claus trying to see if you are being naughty or nice. 
does Clinton era policy and economy scare you?
Isn’t Obama supposed to be the candidate of change and the future? Why would he do things like Clinton did? Wasn’t this whole primary a rejection of a referendum on Clinton-era politics?
*whispers* I’m not really at liberty to say… I think He’s watching.
Are you sure it’s not the flying spaghetti monster that’s doing the watching?
No more than Leprechauns, Fairies, Cthulhu, The Wicked Witch of the East or Dan Rather.
More repulsive than scary.
I’m not afraid of him, 'cuz he’s good and dead. I’m scared shitless of his disciples.
Have your injuries healed yet?
For some reason my father likes Mexican Colonial architecture (think Baroque), especially as it applies to churches (odd since my family is Jewish). In the late 70s and early 80s we’d sometimes vacation in Guanajuato, Michoacan and Jalisco, and we spend an awful lot of time (also an awful time) touring churches and cathedrals.
At the time I though they were gloomy and scary. I guess if I went to one today I’d just think they’re gloomy (think huge spaces, tiny, far away windows, and some candles). I remember it made me appreciate the very modern, “conservative” synagogue my family attended at the time (they still do). “Conservative” Judaism is rally more liberal than the Orthodox kind. Anyway, the synagogue had wide open spaces, large stained-glass windows, and enough lightbulbs to light up a city block. It was bright, airy and cheerful.
Seriously. Compare and contrast the magnitude of your fear to something else, is Jesus the most scary thing ever or not so much?
I think I need an explanation as to why God, Jesus, Christianity, et.al.; are so frightening to Objectivists. Aside from the creator mysticism and the extreme altruism allegedly personified by the death of Jesus, I’ve had zero run-ins with Christians over the years. No muggings for God, no forced labor in the soup kitchens, no ransacking of the house for booty for the collection plate. Nada.
I guess I’ve become complacent. Most Christians I’ve dealt with are mostly pretty decent people. They take the “do unto others” thing pretty seriously. I have the occasional God peddlar stop by the house to show me the light but a polite “No, thank you,” is usually sufficient for them to leave me to my darkness.
The American Inquisition, if there even is such a thing, has to be either very, very benign or very, very inefficient. I have expressed my heresy quite often over the years and have successfully managed to avoid the rack and the whip. I did have a brief run in with an Iron Maiden once, but that is quite another story.
According to a notable array of opposing religions and a growing list of opponents of any religion, Christianity has been hauling us to hell in a handbasket for two millenia or so. If our present location is the best they can do, I say leave them alone. When Christians start lopping off heads, again, and modeling the latest in TNT vests, I shall become concerned.
My suggestion is to stand in front of your mirror and practice a gentle, tolerant smile. Something you can use when a Christian starts a raptuous revelation over their recent rebirth. Rejoice with them. Someone in that state will probably be moved to stand you a beer or two in celebration. Take advantage of it while it lasts. It usually doesn’t last very long.
I think I need an explanation as to why God, Jesus, Christianity, et.al.; are so frightening to Objectivists. Aside from the creator mysticism and the extreme altruism allegedly personified by the death of Jesus, I’ve had zero run-ins with Christians over the years. No muggings for God, no forced labor in the soup kitchens, no ransacking of the house for booty for the collection plate.
But there are religious extremists, and how much more does reality permit the existence of extremism when the vast majority of the populace asserts the divinity of texts used by extremists. How much more difficult would it be for extremism to persist if 95% of the world rejected the Bible and the Koran as little more than ancient, subpar fictions, rather than embrace them as moral guidelines founded in the reality of a divine, all-powerful entity?
So, you read the story about Palin’s pastor…
Read this…
Months after hinting at possible damnation for Kerry supporters, Kalnins bristled at the treatment President Bush was receiving over the federal government’s handling of Hurricane Katrina. “I hate criticisms towards the President,” he said, “because it’s like criticisms towards the pastor – it’s almost like, it’s not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That’s what it’ll get you.”
Much of his support for the current administration has come in the realm of foreign affairs. Kalnins has preached that the 9/11 attacks and the invasion of Iraq were part of a “world war” over the Christian faith, one in which Jesus Christ had called upon believers to be willing to sacrifice their lives.
And you still aren’t worried Grames? You don’t see a problem with someone espouting anti-reason drivel and threating violence for those who don’t agree? Does the fact that these people want the world to burn… that doesn’t bother you?
Maybe this will show you Christians should be watched with wary eyes.
According to Gruen’s report, students at the school were taught that they were a “super-race” of the “elected seed” of all the best bloodlines of all generations – foreknown, predestined, and hand-selected from billions of others to be part of the “end-time Omega generation.”
Though he’d once promoted these doctrines himself, Gruen became convinced that the movement was turning into an end-times cult, marked by what he summarized as “spiritual threats, fears, and warnings of death,” “warning followers to beware of other Christians” and exhibiting “a ‘super-race’ mentality toward the training of their children.”
Bentley is considered a prophet both by his followers and by other leaders of the Joel’s Army movement, whose adherents claim to be reviving a “five-fold ministry” of prophets, apostles, elders, pastors and teachers, as outlined in the Book of Ephesians. Not every five-fold ministry is connected to the Joel’s Army movement, but the movement has spurred an interest in modern-day apostles and prophets that’s troubling to the Assemblies of God, the world’s largest Pentecostal church, which has officially disavowed the Joel’s Army movement.
In a 2001 position paper, Assemblies of God leaders wrote that they do not recognize modern-day apostles or prophets and worried that “such leaders prefer more authoritarian structures where their own word or decrees are unchallenged.” They are right to worry. Joel’s Army followers believe that once democratic institutions are overthrown, their hierarchy of apostles and prophets will rule over the earth, with one church per city.
There are people out there… followers of Christ, who want to kill you or establish a society where your freedom is taken away.
But there are religious extremists, and how much more does reality permit the existence of extremism when the vast majority of the populace asserts the divinity of texts used by extremists. How much more difficult would it be for extremism to persist if 95% of the world rejected the Bible and the Koran as little more than ancient, subpar fictions, rather than embrace them as moral guidelines founded in the reality of a divine, all-powerful entity?
What you are postulating here is a “madness of crowds” mechanic behind extremism, whereas the Objectivist view is that what indiviuals do is caused by their thoughts. The religious radical would be the same regardless of the what the rest of the world thought. Having a persecution complex and regarding the rest of the world as corrupt, even (especially) those with similar but not identical beliefs is the sine qua non of the radical cult. This requires a certain psycho-epistemology and those that have it would find a way to be radical regardless of the cultural context.
On the gripping hand, how you think causes you to accept certain ideas, but the ideas you have affect how you think. Chicken, meet egg.
I am interested in critiques of the argument that underlies the ‘fear the christians’ idea.
All religious believers susceptible to becoming radicals simply because the subconscious tries to integrate beliefs and be consistent.
All ideologies should be judged on the the most integrated and consistent version.
We should judge individuals espousing certain ideologies as if they believed the most integrated and consistent version of that ideology.
It is justice (ethical justice, not law) to judge a person not on what they say, but on what they might say (and do) if they were more integrated and consistent.
It is justice to treat a mild mannered Salvation Army bell ringer as if they were a raving Army of God theocrat intent on violent overthrown of the US gov’t because the bell ringer would be that terrorist if he were more integrated and consistent.
whereas the Objectivist view is that what individuals do is caused by their thoughts.
But what is the basis for their thoughts? I think many people are swayed by generalized public opinions. Do you really believe that Christian/Muslim extremism would be equally likely to persist even if 95% of the world totally rejected both religions?
And you still aren’t worried Grames? You don’t see a problem with someone espouting anti-reason drivel and threating violence for those who don’t agree? Does the fact that these people want the world to burn… that doesn’t bother you?
I’m confused: Are you referring to Obama and his violent radical role models and Black Separatist ideology, too?
After all, his pastor actively calls for the destruction of America, and at least one of his political associates has used violence against the U.S. government and the police.
Or do you only see evil abstractly and in Christians with an ‘R’ next to their name?
Yes, I am afraid of both Jesus and his followers. Shephers grow the sheep to slaughter them one day and I don’t want to be slaughtered.
People who blindly mindlessly believe in Jesus scare me. So do all religions. So do all cults. People who subscribe to them are fundamentally irrational, depraved, sick, and out of control. Religiosos and cultists vastly like to hurt the innocent and good. They’re basically capable of any evil. And you just can’t reason with them.
Seriously. Compare and contrast the magnitude of your fear to something else, is Jesus the most scary thing ever or not so much?
I think its kind of creepy because I cannot get my mind around the mentality. Perhaps this is a type fear of the unknown.
I’m more afraid of being mugged, actually. I’ve had only one confrontation in the last couple months fortunately nothing came of it.
What brings this on is this video of Sarah Palin at a church.
Jesus doesn’t scare me, you can’t fear something that doesn’t exist. Jesus Freaks scare the piss out of me.