Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Aesthetics
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I went to see Eternal Sunshine with a good deal of doubt about the message it was sending.

Some people had told me it shared ideas based on Love conquering all evil (and by that evil they mean the technology used to erase Clementine, Joel, and Mary’s minds). Of course, this film was the first cinematically promising one I’ve seen advertised for mainstream viewing (my sig. other works at a theater so he becoming a bit of film nerd).

Though I’m not sure this was the intended message, I walked away from the film the first time feeling like I had expierienced a fictional rendering of what happens when individuals make irrational choices based on impulsive emotions. The “eraser-guys”, for lack of better term, were products of a time when individuals no longer wanted to be held accountable for their decisions.

The second I saw the film I was able to talk to people about it and their first question was “Under what circumstances would you want your memory erased?” Some argued they thought individuals had a right to erase their memory, because it was their and others argued that it would only be an ethical choice if one was erasing a memory of something like a rape, murder, or war (in which one had no choice). I kind of disregarded this question, mainly because I can’t imagine ever being in the state of mind to even consider erasing parts of my memory (although I’ve never experienced severe personal atrocities such as rape).

The third and fourth times I saw this film (yes i know that’s probably a bit odd for a film that’s still in the theater) I tried to enjoy the aesthetic qualities but I felt a constant nagging, a denial of reality and a glorification of the idea that man can give his mind the ability to bend reality to his concious whim. The scene that really “got me” was when Clemetine and Joel are sitting on the couch (in his mind) trying to figure out way to save their memory of each other until morning and she suggests he hide them in an old memory. Suddenly we’re watching a cute little boy and two adults are singing “Row row row your boat, gently down the stream, merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream”

That, combined with Mary’s quoting of Nietzche (twice - the same quote) “The forgetful get the better even of their blunders.”

Anyways, this film brought up a lot of questions and I’m hoping some of you have seen it and would be interested in discussing it with me. :blink:

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I went to see Eternal Sunshine with a good deal of doubt about the message it was sending.

I saw it once almost two weeks ago now. I didn’t know anything about it going in, and I was somewhat optimistic in light of its wonderful title. Just like when I saw A Beautiful Mind. :lol:

Some people had told me it shared ideas based on Love conquering all evil (and by that evil they mean the technology used to erase Clementine, Joel, and Mary’s minds).

The one person I heard talking about it was also saying something that involved a “love conquered all” theme. But not love conquered evil and certainly not technology. In my opinion there weren’t any technology related themes in the movie. :lol:

The scene that most impressed me was the one with Joel and Clementine after they’ve both recieved their tapes and they’re coming to terms with what it means that they’ve already had a previous relationship that ended in unhappiness (and indeed I believe was filled predominatly with unhappiness). Clementine starts to go. Joel says wait. And I don’t remember exactly how this happens, but they just say “ok” don’t they? And then they start to laugh hysterically. :warn:

I think the main idea (maybe almost) in this movie was (at least approximately) a “denial of the reality of romantic relationships verus acceptance of the reality of romantic relationships”

All the characters who had their memories erased (and Howard) denied the reality of r.r. They chose to bury the past. It didn’t work out; it was painful and unhappy. Lets deny it ever happened. (Lets forget it ever happened).

The problem is, you just can’t deny or escape the reality of r.r. It will come up again and again. (like it does for that woman who wanted a six operations in one month and Mary, Howard, Clementine, and Joel.

What did the Clementine and Joel have to do when they knew they could not escape reality - specifically their chronic frustration and dissatisfaction with their relationship? They resigned. Presumably, so that they could have what little good their relationship did offer them.

Marry didn’t. I liked Mary the most. But I think she was supposed to have abandoned romantic relationships after she quit her job, didn’t pursue either Howard, discontinued her affair with Howard’s employe (I can’t think of his name), and disappeared. Disappeared because after she broke all ties we didn’t hear from her again.

Now, Joel and Clemtine wouldn’t characterize their “ok” in the hallway as resignation. They’d call is an acceptance. But an acceptance of that kind is a resignation.

The problem i.e. that which caused their chronic frustration and prompted them to deny the reality of their r.r. was, we are lead to believe, “high expectations”.

I can’t remember much specific evidence to back this up. Maybe the biggest one was Clementine’s continual protest that went something along the lines of “I’m not perfect. I’m just a girl. You won’t find what you’re looking for with me” Or something like that. Joel and Clementine’s scene in the Library or Book Store where she worked summed it this up pretty well.

The guy who tried to seduce Clementine was lead to completely deny and fake realtiy in favor of keeping his high expectations.

Anyway, I’d say the movie presented a world in which one must have high expectations (of what kind I’m not sure yet) and then deny reality when they aren’t fulfilled or resign i.e. have lesser expectations, accept chronic frustration which is in accordance with realtiy. A third option, which wasn’t presented (unless you hope that Mary does this) is critically examine your expectations against reality. Find the irrational beliefs which are actually preventing your happiness and correct them. And then enjoy it.

Thats basically what I thought of the movie. :ph34r:

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I very thought about the philosophy of this movie though they quoted Nietzsche and Pope Alexander twice.

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In my opinion there weren’t any technology related themes in the movie.

I agree with you… it wasn’t a theme at all, I think that the guy who said that to me was referring to the technology allowing them to have parts of their memory erased.

Find the irrational beliefs which are actually preventing your happiness and correct them.  And then enjoy it.

I think this was the strongest message in the movie, it was kind of a “if you do this, you get that…” storyline. A lesson. I think Mary’s character probably does the best job of correcting her situation, by completely stepping out of the lives of the people she had been involved with. However, I think the main difference between Mary vs. Joel and Clementine is that she had nothing rational to begin with (her “fantasies” of Howard and her having children, an affair with a married man which in this case is admitted to by both (on the tape in her file) as irrational) versus Joel and Clementines original relationship, which in many ways is rational. Maybe comparing them is apples and oranges, I’m not sure.

I’m not movie buff, but I think this movie had a lot of lessons about using the mind’s rational faculties to set things right. Just as you said.

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I’m not movie buff, but I think this movie had a lot of lessons about using the mind’s rational faculties to set things right. Just as you said.

I said that that lesson wasn’t shown.

That in short summary Joel and Clementine…

  1. had a relationship with serious, chronic frustration (there may have also been good in it too)

  2. dealt with whether or not they wanted to erase their memories of eachother which would, in my analysis, would be to the same as “running away from their problems” (problems which are too central and too important to their lives to run away from)

  3. were confronted with their problem in their new relationship and didn’t work to solve it, didn’t think about the causes, but simply resigned to repeat their history (chronic frustration and all)

The scene in the hallway near the end is a microcosm to the entire movie. Thats what I think.. I’m open to parts of the movie which suggest different ideas.