Fashion-consiousness

Intellectuals and the Media
1

The case against fashion: Many aspects of the fashion business are purposelessly “fickle”. If pink is “in” this year, then another color must be “in” a few years from now. If being fashionable means being current, then change for change’s sake is part of the business.

Fashion is not simply a quest for an objectively-best look. If comfort is “in” this year, it may be “out” next year. If straight lines are “in” one year, curves may be “in” next year, and rough edges may be “in” the year after.

A few people — designers, models, actresses – decide what is “in”. People who don’t follow the trend are “out of fashion”.

So, following fashions is simply foolish.

The case for fashion

Looking good is an affirmation of oneself. Fashion may be fickle, but it is a lot of fun. One does not really need to spend a lot of money on designer names. One can be pretty up-to-date on a budget, if one is creative. Also, there is never just a single fashion of the day. There are usually a few “looks” to choose from, and one can choose one. That way, you “reward” good designers.

I’m not dismissive of people who do not follow fashion, but for me it is like a hobby. I don’t think less of them, let them not think less of me. But, I do think less of people who label me a “fake” simply because I am fashionable. I like my up to date haircut, handbag and car!

2

Following (and setting) clothing fashion and trends is not necessarily, or even predominantly, second-handed or some sort of “fitting in” or “belonging” or accepting the standards of others over one’s own. Man’s need (yes, *need*) of fashion is entirely valid and redounds on a psycho-epistemological need–man’s need of differentiation.

Just as a word sounds stupid if you say or hear it over and over again (until it degenerates into a laughing fit of babble), a predominant style of dress looks stupid if you see it over and over again. It’s like you have an internal monologue that says “stirrup pants, stirrup pants, stirrup pants, stirrup pants…ok that looks stupid now. Now let’s wear capri pants.”

There is nothing at all invalid or second-handed about fashion trends unless they are blantantly irrational (examples of which I can’t come up with, though I’m sure there are ‘inherently evil cargo pants’ or something.)

Objectivists shouldn’t reject being style-conscious just because it partly involves how others perceive you. One’s body image and how one is physically perceived is an important psychological factor in a man’s self-concept. Plus, we might get women to like us for reasons more visceral than our stunning intellects. :stuck_out_tongue:

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bad edit deleted

4

Fashion and dressing well arent my strong points,i woudnt even know where to start.

5

Within the limits of the genetically given and economics, appearence is a matter of style. It is, to an extent, an expression of how one wishes to reshape the universe. It expresses an aspect of one’s personal value hierarchy.

One can dismiss fashion as unimportant and opt for comfort and function, which says that this aspect of my life is not important. That doesn’t tell people, however, whether you have other, much higher values, or you are indifferent to values as such.

One can also turn it into a value, saying, in effect, “I like the way people look when they take the time to dress well. I get pleasure from that.” Or: “I prefer to look a certain way of my own choosing, rather than the haphazard manner of a bum.”

One reason to dress well is to express appreciation for others dressing well, so that someone else can take pleasure from your appearance. (That’s something to remember for dates, by the way.) It can mutually benefit you and the people you interact with.

Of course, it is not either-or. There’s a spectrum: from the bum to the fashion plate; from the indifference of Roark in college to the secondhandedness of Keating; from someone who takes a few minutes every morning to look “good enough” to the “metrosexual” who has regular manicure appointments.

6

Fashion and dressing well arent my strong points,i woudnt even know where to start.

I would start by watching TV: Queer Eye For the Straight Guy on Bravo and What Not To Wear on TLC. They will give you a great overview of what clothes work for what types of people and why. And they are fun and will get you excited and motivated about improving your look, by showing you that is possible to go from zero to sixty by making just a few small changes.

Some books: Color For Men by Carole Jackson. A lot of this book is outdated, but the guidelines for determining which colors best complement your skin tone are timeless. The book is out of print, but your library or used book store probably have copies.

Off the Cuff by Carson Kressley. He’s the “Fashion Savant” on the aforemention Queer Eye show. It’s an irreverant and up-to-date guide to finding the clothes that best match your body, personality, and lifestyle. A two button rag of a shirt might work for college-Roark, but it might not work for you.

There are other “classic” books that you’ll see recommended on men’s clothing, like Style and the Man for example. It’s worth reading, but some of it is a bit outdated and the bulk of it irrelevant to most men, unless you wear a suit every day to work and get to shop for the latest couture in Milan and London (it actually has a directory of the best places to get clothing in Europe’s poshest cities…like I have that opportunity).

Read men’s style-oriented magazines like GQ, Esquire and the like. Cut out pictures of things you like from the magazines and bring them with you when you go shopping, so you can find looks that match the pictures. Don’t tell yourself “I could never wear that.” That’s just self-limiting defeatism. You are worthy of looking great.

Notice other people whom you consider snappy dressers and ask yourself what makes you evaluate them that way. More often than not, it’s two things (among others): their clothes actually fit them right, and they have cool accessories.

Another tip: Actually GO SHOPPING. And not always at Wal-Mart or JC Penny but at the expensive mall clothing stores. Doesn’t mean you have to buy anything, but get a feel for what is out there and what you like. And very important: TRY THINGS ON. Even if you only marginally like something, grab it and try it on anyway. You might be surprised at what looks good on you. Be more of an empiricist than a rationalist. You can talk yourself out of a piece of clothing, but you really don’t know if it works for you unless you have actual experiences trying it on. Have fun with it.

Within the constraints of your budget, buy the best quality garments you can afford. It’s a much better investment of your money to buy something that is classic, timeless, well-constructed, well-fitting and will last you… as opposed to some piece of junk that you’ll have to replace in six months because it’s coming apart.

Hope this helps.

P.S. It is also a plus if you have a fantastic credit limit and little abandon. :stuck_out_tongue:

P.P.S. Also, throwing away all your pleated casual pants would be a great start. :slight_smile:

7

What is fashion?

I have skimmed through the posts in this thread and have not seen a definition.

A formal definition would help.

Also helpful would be an explanation of the difference, if any, between being fashionable and dressing well. Is one social and the other individual?

A last question, for now: what is the relationship between form and function in dress?

8

What is fashion?  … A formal definition would help.

I’ll try defining “fashionable”: it is to adopt the style in clothing, accessories and the like which is considered to be current and beautiful by one’s cohort.

I consider “being fashionable” as a hobby. Its fine not to be fashionable, just as it is fine not to collect stamps. Under ordinary conditions, one should try to be as neat and clean as one can afford. Being fashionable is an optional value. If other things interest you more, that’s fine. Don’t waste your time on reading about what’s “in”.

Some places expect people to dress fashionably. That’s fine too. Going there in last year’s outfit would be like coming to a stamp-collector’s meeting with blank pieces of paper. Within the context, scorn could be appropriate. People are not thinking “this is a bad person”, only “doesn’t she know how to dress for this night club”.

Sometimes a host may ask people to dress up specially – e.g. black tie – as a way to highlight the importance of the occassion. In that context, not dressing up as expected would be rude. It would be similarly rude to disobey an employer’s dress code.

If the host (or employer, or night-club owner) does not care what you wear, and neither do you, then feel free to come in your rags.

9

Within the constraints of your budget, buy the best quality garments you can afford.  It’s a much better investment of your money to buy something that is classic, timeless […]

Also, throwing away all your pleated casual pants would be a great start.

Is it possible to be “fashionable” and “timeless” at the same time? What ideas do those terms name?

What would be a particular example of clothing that is fashionable and classic – for a 60 year old male who shops only at Goodwill Industries, for budget reasons, who is very active in walking and bicycling throughout the day, and who already has all the hobbies he can handle?

What is the vice you see in wearing pleated pants?

10

I’ll try defining “fashionable”: it is to adopt the style in clothing, accessories and the like which is considered to be current and beautiful by one’s cohort.

So, fashionable means letting others (at least a “cohort,” an ambiguous term that often means simply “companions,” whether valued or not) decide what is “current” (whatever that means) and beautiful (by the others’ standard of beauty).

What is the difference between that and second-handedness in dress?

Some members of this thread – including you – have made an excellent case for dressing well (that is, in a context-appropriate manner that expresses one’s pride in self). They have also made a case for applying one’s mind to selecting clothing for appropriate style, durability and other objective factors. Many men in particular can gain from that advice.

The part that is repellent to me is turning “fashionableness” – as defined here – into a value or virtue. I see no essential difference between it and second-handedness in dress.

11

Most of the time I don’t care that much; I just wear whatever is comfortable. When I do dress up for a semiformal or formal event I try to look good but don’t bother following the latest fashions. I still wear my pleated pants; they are comfortable and look good so why should I care if they are “in fashion”?

12

Forgot to add: I am still wearing a suit that my father-had custom-made for himself 40 yrs ago. It’s obviously not in style but I still get compliments on it.

What would be a particular example of clothing that is fashionable and classic – for a 60 year old male who shops only at Goodwill Industries, for budget reasons, who is very active in walking and bicycling throughout the day, and who already has all the hobbies he can handle?

Maybe not fashionable but certainly classic clothing is easy to find at Goodwill. Just look for clothes that have a simple straightforward style that does not stand out as being obviously dated. For a 60-yr-old it is not a big deal to wear clothes that are several decades old; it will just be assumed that he bought them years ago and still likes them. Can’t think of a good specific example …

13

I would start by watching TV:  Queer Eye For the Straight Guy on Bravo and What Not To Wear on TLC.  They will give you a great overview of what clothes work for what types of people and why.  And they are fun and will get you excited and motivated about improving your look, by showing you that is possible to go from zero to sixty by making just a few small changes.

Some books: Color For Men by Carole Jackson. A lot of this book is outdated, but the guidelines for determining which colors best complement your skin tone are timeless.  The book is out of print, but your library or used book store probably have copies.

Off the Cuff by Carson Kressley. He’s the “Fashion Savant” on the aforemention Queer Eye show.  It’s an irreverant and up-to-date guide to finding the clothes that best match your body, personality, and lifestyle.  A two button rag of a shirt might work for college-Roark, but it might not work for you.

There are other “classic” books that you’ll see recommended on men’s clothing, like Style and the Man for example.  It’s worth reading, but some of it is a bit outdated and the bulk of it irrelevant to most men, unless you wear a suit every day to work and get to shop for the latest couture in Milan and London (it actually has a directory of the best places to get clothing in Europe’s poshest cities…like I have that opportunity).

Read men’s style-oriented magazines like GQ, Esquire and the like.  Cut out pictures of things you like from the magazines and bring them with you when you go shopping, so you can find looks that match the pictures.  Don’t tell yourself “I could never wear that.”  That’s just self-limiting defeatism.  You are worthy of looking great.

Notice other people whom you consider snappy dressers and ask yourself what makes you evaluate them that way.  More often than not, it’s two things (among others): their clothes actually fit them right, and they have cool accessories.

Another tip: Actually GO SHOPPING.  And not always at Wal-Mart or JC Penny but at the expensive mall clothing stores.  Doesn’t mean you have to buy anything, but get a feel for what is out there and what you like.  And very important: TRY THINGS ON.  Even if you only marginally like something, grab it and try it on anyway.  You might be surprised at what looks good on you.  Be more of an empiricist than a rationalist.  You can talk yourself out of a piece of clothing, but you really don’t know if it works for you unless you have actual experiences trying it on. Have fun with it.

Within the constraints of your budget, buy the best quality garments you can afford.  It’s a much better investment of your money to buy something that is classic, timeless, well-constructed, well-fitting and will last you… as opposed to some piece of junk that you’ll have to replace in six months because it’s coming apart.

Hope this helps.

P.S. It is also a plus if you have a fantastic credit limit and little abandon. :stuck_out_tongue:

P.P.S. Also, throwing away all your pleated casual pants would be a great start. :slight_smile:

Wow, thanks for the advice, ill definetly try what you suggested.

P.P.S. Also, throwing away all your pleated casual pants would be a great start. :slight_smile:

This is how clueless i am, i dont know what pleated pants are.

14

I’m studying fashion design actually, as part of a four year university degree. Fashion does not arise out of nowhere. It is usually greatly influenced to some degree by what is going on in the world. Sometimes that’s a good thing, and other times not. It all depends on how the designer interprets it all. Form follows function. Fashion is the style or styles most popular at a given time, and style is reflected by line, silhouette and details. Personnaly, i think that fashion fluctuates because designers would be bored otherwise. It’s fun to switch it up every other season. But of course, in the end, the customer dictates the trends, no matter how crazy the stuff on the runway may be!

15

Today, the quotation on the home page of this forum was:

“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.” – Thomas Jefferson

Fits in well with this thread.

16

i would not consider myself fashionable at all. from the poll i chose “keep up with the current trends but select what i like from them”. i dont think i could ever wear designer clothes everyday, for example, as I tend to be a bit clumsy sometimes and would lose major money at the dry cleaners from spills, messes and maybe even rips.

i do like to dress up for special occasions though. It is nice to feel like a “greek-goddess” sometimes when going to a formal affair. or if I’m going out to a night-club or on a date I like to look as nice as possible but always comfortable. I’ve had occassions when i chose looks over comfort and that NEVER went well. I was not able to enjoy myself and it showed.

17

“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.” – Thomas Jefferson

What if style IS a principle for me?

I think that the way a person dresses–along with his hair style, gait, intonation, etc.–is an expression of his personality. I dress the way I do because I am who I am. So, for me, yielding to fashion wouldn’t only mean letting other people take control of how I dress, but also of who I am. An unbearable thought!

18

Only recently a stylish female colleague commented to me that I should start to buy pants without pleats, and she explained that they were back in fashion. Hmm… I do have a few casual pants without pleats, but I still like my pleated ones… When I was younger I thought pleats were so old fashioned because my dad had some old photos of himself in pleated pants. When they came back in fashion I liked them. I also find them more comfortable.

Too bad. Maybe I’ll keep my pleated casuals somewhere safe and hope for the best in the years to come.

Pants without pleats never really went out of fashion.

If you are built well, pants without pleats accentuate your build. :smiley:

19

What if style IS a principle for me?

I think that the way a person dresses–along with his hair style, gait, intonation, etc.–is an expression of his personality. I dress the way I do because I am who I am. So, for me, yielding to fashion wouldn’t only mean letting other people take control of how I dress, but also of who I am. An unbearable thought!

Okay, but what if I hold all the great principles of an Objectivist, but couldn’t care for the life of me of what ‘style’ of clothing I wear? Is this not possible?

20

Okay, but what if I hold all the great principles of an Objectivist, but couldn’t care for the life of me of what ‘style’ of clothing I wear?  Is this not possible?

I would say that is impossible. Think about what you are saying: would you go around wearing potato sacks and shirts covered with hippie-flowers?