Hello everyone

Introductions and Personal Notes
1

Hello everyone, I’d rather not state my real name because of privacy issues but I am a 19 year old college student, and fairly recently (within the last few months or so) I’ve decided that objectivism is really what I want to believe in. I have really always accepted objectivism, but wasn’t quite aware such a thing existed and didn’t have a technical understanding of it. Since childhood, I have always had an entrepeneurial spirit and was highly imaginative. I came up with wild ideas for stories, businesses, inventions, art, and even layout plans for buildings. I won writing contests and started little childhood businesses (and would scoff at having to collect sales tax hehe). I didn’t like other children very much but felt great satisfaction from drawing up conversations with adults. In other words, I have always had the drive to create and profit from the inner workings of my imagination. As a child I wrote many stories and would often spend hours doing so and at age 8 I had decided that I wanted to be a writer. So, here I am at 19 in the process of perfecting the outline and layout for my first book. I just hope I can create something that will convey my themes deeply that is all the while entertaining and compelling. It has been an interesting road to my discovery of objectivism. From childhood restlessness to a troubled, uncertain adolescence and a transition into a seemingly strange, but mostly positive young adulthood I have always struggled to find out the truth in life about everything.

But anyway, I am having some issues right now with romantic relationships. I’ll always build it up in my head, this perfect image of what I want in a mate and when I actually find someone halfway decent it is very very dissapointing and frustrating. It’s mostly because of personality clashes, I don’t feel dominated enough and in the right way, I don’t really feel secure yet free. If he is dominating enough I always feel like the child and if he is more timid I feel like an exhausted, overbearing mother. I’m beginning to wonder if it is just because I have a personality that is very hard for most people to live with (because of it’s complexity) or because I imagine emotions towards me in the other person in an exagerrated way. Is this what most people go through? Am I simply struggling to find the right balance of a person for me?

I have known a boy for 3 years whom I find very physically attractive but now we live far away. We are still best friends and are pursuing a relationship, but I worry that we have serious personality clashes that will make life hell later on. We are extremely drawn to each other, especially in an intellectual way and we enjoy deep satisfying laughs together but I just don’t get that warm fuzzy feeling of romantic submission with him like I’ve gotten with other men. He can’t dominate me the way I want him too, and sometimes I wonder if he is homo, immoral, depressed, manipulative, insecure, or just plain weak. Then other times he is the most handsome man in the world, loyal, supportive, a genius, and the only friend worth having. Or I start getting really paranoid and think he only wants to purue me because he knows me and not because I’m the most valuable to him.

2

Hello and welcome to the forum.

How important is it that you be dominated in a such a relationship and to what degree ( you do not have to answer )? I would think that the last thing one wants in a healthy relationship is to be dominated in that sort of way. Personally I think it is *possible* that you have an incorrect view of the proper role of dominance in a romantic relationship between a man and a woman. The way I view it is that male dominance is not an essential aspect of the relationship ( outside of the bedroom and such :wink: ). I personally prefer woman that are mentally and emotionally strong and challenging and I do not really gain a lot of value in the dominating them outside of the more physical/sexual aspects of the relationship.

Lets consult the Ayn Rand Lexicon to get some clues on some pretty rational views of femininity/sexual/relationships :

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/femininity.html

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/love.html

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/sex.html

3

Regardless of your romantic woes, you’re a very beautiful woman.

4

Hello and welcome to the forum.

How important is it that you be dominated in a such a relationship and to what degree ( you do not have to answer )? I would think that the last thing one wants in a healthy relationship is to be dominated in that sort of way. Personally I think it is *possible* that you have an incorrect view of the proper role of dominance in a romantic relationship between a man and a woman. The way I view it is that male dominance is not an essential aspect of the relationship ( outside of the bedroom and such :wink: ). I personally prefer woman that are mentally and emotionally strong and challenging and I do not really gain a lot of value in the dominating them outside of the more physical/sexual aspects of the relationship.

Lets consult the Ayn Rand Lexicon to get some clues on some pretty rational views of femininity/sexual/relationships :

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/femininity.html

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/love.html

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/sex.html

I’m not talking about the kind of dominance that is repressive or whatnot, perhaps dominant isn’t a good word. What I mean is that I can only have complete satisfaction when he is confidant and takes charge, to put it in a nutshell. He is always questioning himself to me and he acts unsure. Its not that I mind that he is like that, it’s just that it is exhausting and I feel like it’s more healthy for the man to be the supporting, leading one. I’m just wondering if it’s because he is slightly younger than me and that males are less mature than females at that age or just that we have incompatibilities in some areas that can’t be dealt with. What I’m talking about here is not silly get in the kitchen stuff, its just pretty important to me to feel emotionally supported. I need a mate that reassures me and knows what to do when I’m in a bad situation, not confuse me further with “I don’t know” stuff.

5

I’m not talking about the kind of dominance that is repressive or whatnot, perhaps dominant isn’t a good word. What I mean is that I can only have complete satisfaction when he is confidant and takes charge, to put it in a nutshell. He is always questioning himself to me and he acts unsure. Its not that I mind that he is like that, it’s just that it is exhausting and I feel like it’s more healthy for the man to be the supporting, leading one. I’m just wondering if it’s because he is slightly younger than me and that males are less mature than females at that age or just that we have incompatibilities in some areas that can’t be dealt with. What I’m talking about here is not silly get in the kitchen stuff, its just pretty important to me to feel emotionally supported. I need a mate that reassures me and knows what to do when I’m in a bad situation, not confuse me further with “I don’t know” stuff.

Ah, well that is different to what I thought that you meant and I can see why that might be a problem in such a relationship. You are attracted to self-assured and confident men that do not need constant reassurance in order to “feel validated” and such. While at the same time you want a man that you are able to look up to and that can be there for you and will take charge , especially when you are having a bad day ( bad week, month or whatever) and is able to help you feel better. Nothing wrong with that, that sounds pretty healthy to me :slight_smile:

6

Ah, well that is different to what I thought that you meant and I can see why that might be a problem in such a relationship. You are attracted to self-assured and confident men that do not need constant reassurance in order to “feel validated” and such. While at the same time you want a man that you are able to look up to and that can be there for you and will take charge , especially when you are having a bad day ( bad week, month or whatever) and is able to help you feel better. Nothing wrong with that, that sounds pretty healthy to me :slight_smile:

It’s not exactly that he asks for reassurance, I think he probably just has kind of an unsure outlook on life. He is a very attractive, good looking man (and I don’t say that for nothing) and if I say something like you are sexy, he acts bewildered and says something like, “I never thought I was really that good looking.” He is 18 years old, and wants to be an engineer, but debates for weeks about whether he should sign up for college classes and/or go get his drivers license. Aside from his good qualities, it is very frustrating and queer to have to deal with a man that can’t lead. The only reason I haven’t considered letting him go is because I think this may not really be him, it may be environmental (culture he was taught etc.) or that he is just young. But I am afraid that he is like this simply because we have incompatible personalities and that with another woman he wouldn’t be like this. When I was really angry at him for stuff a long time ago, I was convinced that he had turned homo.

Everything is an ordeal with him. He asks me to come visit him for a week then acts like I’m inviting myself when I ask him to tell me a date because I have to plan my schedule.

7

It’s not exactly that he asks for reassurance, I think he probably just has kind of an unsure outlook on life. He is a very attractive, good looking man (and I don’t say that for nothing) and if I say something like you are sexy, he acts bewildered and says something like, “I never thought I was really that good looking.” He is 18 years old, and wants to be an engineer, but debates for weeks about whether he should sign up for college classes and/or go get his drivers license. Aside from his good qualities, it is very frustrating and queer to have to deal with a man that can’t lead. The only reason I haven’t considered letting him go is because I think this may not really be him, it may be environmental (culture he was taught etc.) or that he is just young. But I am afraid that he is like this simply because we have incompatible personalities and that with another woman he wouldn’t be like this. When I was really angry at him for stuff a long time ago, I was convinced that he had turned homo.

Everything is an ordeal with him. He asks me to come visit him for a week then acts like I’m inviting myself when I ask him to tell me a date because I have to plan my schedule.

I am not sure that the appearance thing is a big deal ( unless it comes up a lot and / or is presented in a really negative way). Possibly he is just unsure and does not know how to assess his own physical appearance , or at least not according to the standards he thinks he should have. I would guess it is probably something more than this/ different to this however.

As for whether or not you should let him go : Well, I am not going to pretend to know what you should do here. I would guess that were I “in your shoes” that I probably would have become too frustrated by now and let him go. The “is this really him” issue would be key I suppose, but what you have to ask yourself is “Is he acting this way because it reflects his core values etc, or does he sometimes act like this because he has conflicting beliefs/values”/. I cannot imagine what they might be in this case , nor do I know if it would be better in that context for it to be the latter. However, if it is the latter, it is perhaps more hopeful.

8

I am not sure that the appearance thing is a big deal ( unless it comes up a lot and / or is presented in a really negative way). Possibly he is just unsure and does not know how to assess his own physical appearance , or at least not according to the standards he thinks he should have. I would guess it is probably something more than this/ different to this however.

As for whether or not you should let him go : Well, I am not going to pretend to know what you should do here. I would guess that were I “in your shoes” that I probably would have become too frustrated by now and let him go. The “is this really him” issue would be key I suppose, but what you have to ask yourself is “Is he acting this way because it reflects his core values etc, or does he sometimes act like this because he has conflicting beliefs/values”/. I cannot imagine what they might be in this case , nor do I know if it would be better in that context for it to be the latter. However, if it is the latter, it is perhaps more hopeful.

He isn’t just like that about his appearance, he’s like that about a lot of other things too. I think it’s just an especially bad sign when an attractive person can’t see how desirable they are. If you have that advantage, a psychologically healthy person tends to be very proud of that fact or at least accept a compliment without humbling themselves. But I could be wrong. It’s just that, being a generally above average person its hard to see how someone like him wouldn’t be proud of their looks.

It does sound like he is struggling with some sort of conflict in values. He used to masturbate a lot and look at porn he told me, and is irrationaly moralistic when it concerns sexual relationships. It’s gotten better, but sometimes I feel like I’m talking to a scared pubescent boy who doesn’t know how to make me feel like a woman. This could be due to the fact that he has never kissed a girl before (he claims that he is saving it for whoever he is loyal too, which is really quite ridiculous if you ask me) but I don’t believe him for one second. But again, I really doubt that it is his fault he has probably become repressed in a very bad sort of way. His parents used to come in his room, catch him masturbating, and tell him to quit it. He also used to hold some really crazy religious beliefs in the past, which he doesn’t believe now (although he does identify as christian). I think it is the lonely environment he’s in, some crazy religious beliefs he’s been taught, and his parents divorce.

Just because I like to talk about sex every now and then or make some good natured joke about my vagina he comes in later and says, I just don’t know what to do, I hope you aren’t expecting me to have sex with you. How much more insulting and awkward can you make a person feel? I would never, ever do anything like take my clothes off unless the man made the first move. I said I am not trying to make the moves on you or anything I just want things to flow naturally, and I’m a sensual person. I would never ever do anything he was uncomfortable with. Then he said, well I was just checking, because I didn’t want anyone to expect anything and then be dissapointed. These moralists are crazy, because it really ruins the whole thing if you bring it up like that. Every time I fantasize about something, what he said is going to pop into my head and bother me. Christian moralists tout that sex is more enjoyable after marriage or whatever, but when you say something like that it just ruins it. If I wasn’t sure that he is highly aroused by female erotica I would have been out the door.

I really think he needs help if he is going to change (which I have complete confidance that he can become a confident male) but the trouble is I don’t think I can help him properly, and it would hurt our relationship. He’s cleaned out his religious beliefs (at least he says he has) and believes what an average christian does and that has helped things a lot, but I still think he needs to correct his thinking further as well as become proud of himself and honest about what he wants. A male, objectivist counselor would be good (he doesn’t have a proper male role model or brother) but I doubt he would accept that he is not doing good things for himself. The other option is later, if things got more serious, to do “couples counseling” or something like that, saying simply that I want to go.

9

I agree that a good looking person should not have too much trouble realizing this fact. However, some attractive looking people have trouble with this thing, at least in respect to themselves and or people of their own gender. One reason for this can be repression, some people wrongly think that assessing the attractiveness of members of their own gender is the same as *being attracted* to members of that gender. Then they take this to really illogical extremes. Religous people probably are more prone to this…

It sounds like he may think that he should be self-assured and confident ( or maybe he realizes to some extent that this is what you want from him) but that he may not be fully committed to it. Perhaps he does not really understand why it might be seen as a value to be so, maybe he just does not know how or maybe he just does not think that he has any reason to be either , so cannot bring himself to be so ( again I am speculating, obviously I do not know this person, so I can only make semi-educated guesses).

Personally I think the sexual attitude he seems to have would drive me crazy. Sex is definitely an important aspect of a romantic relationship! I can to some extent understand ( understand, not agree with ) a little nervousness if he has not yet had sex with anyone. However, it seems it is probably a lot more than that and he is just terrified to do it for some reason. I would definitely sit him down and tell him that you are bothered by the fact that he seems to be trying to maneuver around the issue. I am not sure if there would be any way for you to help him overcome his apparent reluctance, but I think this is definitely an issue that needs to be discussed frankly as soon as possible. He may not find it comfortable, however if you make it clear that you need to talk to him about it and he cannot handle that, I would get out of that relationship.

Of course, if you think that you cannot help him, I agree with the implication that the best thing to do may be to cut your losses. Or if it is too much to help him deal with alone : There are Objectivist counselors/therapists that may be able to provide some help here. Ellen Kenner and Edwin Locke are two such apparently, and someone here may be able to point you towards others and you might find this link useful : http://forum.ObjectivismOnline.com/index.php?showtopic=12377