Human vs animal consciousness

DA said:

Having the ability to conceptualize, i.e., form mental pictures, is behaviorally expressible by sound and gestures to communicate, and I believe most would concede that intelligent animals communicate with members of their own pack. I’m inclined to be generous and permit that many animals have any ability to translate into and out of their own means of communication via aggressive, passive, and playful posturing, including some remarkable examples of deception.

Careful, conceptualizing as “forming mental pictures” is a very misleading idea. It might be best to ask, “can other animals perform abstraction?”. When we abstract we let go of visual memory for a symbol. I ask the question: " Can any of the monkeys that are taught to sign, make the connection-symbolize, "that boat looks like a banana. I’ll call it a “banana boat” "?..

I am remiss. I could have posted this link to supplement my last post.

 

I’m associating the ability to observe another build a fire and emulate it, to the ability to observe another riding a bike and emulate it.

 

Manufacture was applied to the production facilities of matches or marshmallows, or even the bicycles, not the overly broad application of manufacturing a fire. (manufacture: the process of making products especially with machines in factories)

 

Having the match, and having been shown how to strike it; having the marshmallow, and having been shown how to skewer it on a stick; having the bicycle, and having been shown how to ride it; regard the three objects of manufacture. Sure, you may put Kanzi on any of these factory floors and train him to perform an activity someone else discovered - how many human beings are also adept at acquiring such a skill in this fashion? But to equivocate the activity of being shown how to gather sticks, how to strike a match, how to skewer a marshmallow, with discovery and creation of manufacturing the other items mentioned don’t qualify as “heavily displaying an ability to manufacture.”

 

You should be able to observe from the feature presentation where Bonobo when “shopping” for his firewood. Being given the matches and marshmallows, as these products do not grow in nature, removes them from Kanzi’s “shopping list” and places them firmly in his gift-box. Most of the bonobo’s natural ‘shopping mall’ - the jungle or forests, might lend a clue why more bonobo are not observed indulging in this sort of luxury.

 

DA said:

Careful, conceptualizing as “forming mental pictures” is a very misleading idea. It might be best to ask, “can other animals perform abstraction?”. When we abstract we let go of visual memory for a symbol. I ask the question: " Can any of the monkeys that are taught to sign, make the connection-symbolize, "that boat looks like a banana. I’ll call it a “banana boat” "?..

 

From Merriam-Webster:

Concept: an idea of what something is or how it works

Conceptualize: to form (an idea, picture, etc.) of something in your mind

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From Great ape language, Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_ape_language

 

Differentiation: Washoe used the sign “more” in many different situations until a more specific sign had been learned. At one point, she used the sign for “flower” to express the idea of “smell.” After additional training, Washoe was eventually able to differentiate between “smell” and “flower.”

 

Transfer: Although the same object was presented for each learning trial (a specific hat, for example), Washoe was able to use the sign for other similar objects (e.g. other hats).

 

Combinations: Washoe was able to combine two or three signs in an original way. For example, “open food drink” meant “open the fridge” and “please open hurry” meant “please open it quickly.”

 

Washoe also taught other Chimpanzees some ASL without any help from humans.

 

Sarah and two other chimpanzees, Elizabeth and Peony, in the research programs of David Premack, demonstrated the ability to produce grammatical streams of token selections. The selections came from a vocabulary of several dozen plastic tokens; it took each of the chimpanzees hundreds of trials to reliably associate a token with a referent, such as an apple or banana. The tokens were chosen to be completely different in appearance from the referents. After learning these protocols, Sarah was then able to associate other tokens with consistent behaviors, such as negation, name-of, and if-then. The plastic tokens were placed on a magnetic slate, within a rectangular frame in a line. The tokens had to be selected and placed in a consistent order (a grammar) in order for the trainers to reward the chimpanzees.

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All of the above, beyond demonstrating an ability to learn an alien language (no small trick), tends to evaluate chimpanzee intelligence qua man, albeit a very hungry man.  Were Sara or Washoe to see a boat that looks like a bananna they’d more likely call it a “wet yummy”.

I am remiss. I could have posted this link to supplement my last post.

 

I’m associating the ability to observe another build a fire and emulate it, to the ability to observe another riding a bike and emulate it.

 

Manufacture was applied to the production facilities of matches or marshmallows, or even the bicycles, not the overly broad application of manufacturing a fire. (manufacture: the process of making products especially with machines in factories)

 

Having the match, and having been shown how to strike it; having the marshmallow, and having been shown how to skewer it on a stick; having the bicycle, and having been shown how to ride it; regard the three objects of manufacture. Sure, you may put Kanzi on any of these factory floors and train him to perform an activity someone else discovered - how many human beings are also adept at acquiring such a skill in this fashion? But to equivocate the activity of being shown how to gather sticks, how to strike a match, how to skewer a marshmallow, with discovery and creation of manufacturing the other items mentioned don’t qualify as “heavily displaying an ability to manufacture.”

 

You should be able to observe from the feature presentation where Bonobo when “shopping” for his firewood. Being given the matches and marshmallows, as these products do not grow in nature, removes them from Kanzi’s “shopping list” and places them firmly in his gift-box. Most of the bonobo’s natural ‘shopping mall’ - the jungle or forests, might lend a clue why more bonobo are not observed indulging in this sort of luxury.

 

Yes, I agree that there appears to be a missing link between Kanzi learning how to strip leaves off a stick in order to extract tasty insects, and Kanzi mass producing sticks for others use in order to increase the harvest of tasty insects.  Mass marketing appears to be unique to man, but I’m not convinced that non-human market places don’t exist in the wild.

 

“Our nearest relatives, the chimpanzees, will engage in barter. Meat is a scarce and valuable commodity, and successful hunters will trade bits of their catch to earn favor with higher-ranked members of the troop, for grooming and even for sex–it really is the world’s oldest profession.”

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/pz-myers-work_cx_pzm_06work_0523myers.html

 

DA:

Animals can act purposefully, and even learn to better suit such purposes. So do people.

People build space shuttles and philosophize. Animals do not.

There is clearly and empirically some difference, therein; the only question is precisely what it is.

The question will be much simpler once that is accepted.


The mirror test is an interesting and invaluable tool at our disposal, precisely because it can give us insight into possible introspection. But as with every other attempt to learn what other creatures’ minds are like, we must be careful not to make hasty inferences.


I had a dog once who would howl at my mother’s clarinet; this did not necessarily make him a critic.