Is this rational?

Recreation and The Good Life
21

So then the question becomes, for me anyway, is your life so boring and unfulfilling (or whatever) that you must experience near-death or death-defying situations to feel alive? (If so, I find that incredibly sad.)

Not at all. I have more going on in my life right now then I can handle. In fact, too much to have time left for many hobbies, unfortunately.

See, I knew i would get into trouble trying to explain a feeling that is closer to a sensation then an emotion. I prefaced my comments by calling them rationalizations to ward this off. Megan asked why it was enjoyable beyond the fact that it “feels good.” What you are referencing is my answer. Also the second facet can’t be ignored. It’s because I do have so much going on that the mental simplicity of dangerous activities have appeal.

Things that are difficult and dangerous make me feel more focused. More acute, I guess. To me, this hyper awareness and full engagement makes life seem like more no matter where you start from.

Ok, let me try again. When many people go on roller coasters they experience this same thing. The feeling of danger with the knowledge that you will be safe as an underlayment. In that case you are trusting the engineers, builders and repair technicians. In base jumping, or free climbing, or full contact fighting, or motorcycle racing or whatever, you are trusting your own capacities. So say I’m hanging by 3 fingers and one toe from a rock 130’ in the air. The risk is there if i fail, but i know that I won’t fail.

So the important parts of life to me, the things I value most are my minds ability to focus, integration of myself, and my efficaciousness. The feeling of those things is what life feels like it should mostly be about, for me. An activity which requires that my mind is completely aware and focused, my emotions(fear) are held in check and overcome, and my body is doing what I tell it to do feels like total integration. Everything fits together like at no other time. So it fees good.

Does that make more sense?

22

So then the question becomes, for me anyway, is your life so boring and unfulfilling (or whatever) that you must experience near-death or death-defying situations to feel alive? (If so, I find that incredibly sad.)

There are many ways to make a living that don’t necessarily involve a high risk of getting killed or seriously injured.

As I stated above, as long as these guys don’t have dependents, I don’t really care what they do or whether or not they get paid for it. I just have a hard time finding any reason for it other than it probably feels good. (And that’s not necessarily a good reason to be doing something.) What these guys are doing certainly looks cool, I’ll give em that.

Boring and unfulfilling is everywhere. Even in “extreme sports” for some when they have met their individual challenges. Just like when one has invented everything one has wanted develop. Either way, it is a personal achievement. Faster lap times, more flips, faster computer speeds, more sales, a better steel. I’ve felt the achievement in finishing the fiscal year with big business growth and a similar feeling in a championship. I’ve been bored while winning a race too when there is no strong competition to push me further. Similarly, some things are easy to sell to customers when there is no other competitive product.

Each has to decide on their risk. A simple race doesn’t involve a lot of one’s competitors getting killed during a season as it was decades ago when road course racing was actually on open street circuits compared to the purpose built facilities of today. I did race on two street courses in the US, Park City, UT and Steamboat, CO, and there is certainly a lot more risk there. One needs to calculate things a little differently there to mitigate the risk to whatever standard one is comfortable with.

Hey, even in scuba diving, one should learn and use dive charts…or risk death.

23

Things that are difficult and dangerous make me feel more focused. More acute, I guess. To me, this hyper awareness and full engagement makes life seem like more no matter where you start from.

Ok, let me try again. When many people go on roller coasters they experience this same thing. The feeling of danger with the knowledge that you will be safe as an underlayment. In that case you are trusting the engineers, builders and repair technicians. In base jumping, or free climbing, or full contact fighting, or motorcycle racing or whatever, you are trusting your own capacities. So say I’m hanging by 3 fingers and one toe from a rock 130’ in the air. The risk is there if i fail, but i know that I won’t fail.

So the important parts of life to me, the things I value most are my minds ability to focus, integration of myself, and my efficaciousness. The feeling of those things is what life feels like it should mostly be about, for me. An activity which requires that my mind is completely aware and focused, my emotions(fear) are held in check and overcome, and my body is doing what I tell it to do feels like total integration. Everything fits together like at no other time. So it fees good.

I’ll agree with the feeling on the bike side too, and I’m expecting that there are similarities.

In the end, I’m responsible. I make the decision. Where, when, how, how much faster? Can I do this? Can I do it better?

That confidence of self bleeds into other things that I do too. I don’t need to be scared of certain situations. I am in control. If I have a problem with a job, a project or whatever, I focus myself into that calmness of what “being on the edge” is like. That quiet moment where time stands still and things are just about what things are and executing things as they should be with a finite movement or calculation. Clarity of surroundings and reality are the result.

24

I’ll agree with the feeling on the bike side too, and I’m expecting that there are similarities.

Oh, I should clarify that I’ve hardly ever sat on a motorcycle. I just assumed it was similar, so thanks for corroberating.

In the end, I’m responsible. I make the decision. Where, when, how, how much faster? Can I do this? Can I do it better?

That confidence of self bleeds into other things that I do too. I don’t need to be scared of certain situations. I am in control. If I have a problem with a job, a project or whatever, I focus myself into that calmness of what “being on the edge” is like. That quiet moment where time stands still and things are just about what things are and executing things as they should be with a finite movement or calculation. Clarity of surroundings and reality are the result.

The “bleed through” is another great point. It does seem like these kind of challenges have a pretty long carryover, emotionally speaking.

I hate treading into these waters philosophically. It’s like trying to describe what sex feels like. No matter how you try it comes out sounding incomplete.

25

So I guess it boils down to different strokes for different folks? I don’t need to unnecessarily risk my life to appreciate, respect or enjoy life or “the good”, but evidently, some do. At least they provide entertainment for the rest of us. :lol:

26

That’s true, but another factor is that in most of these activities you are primarily dependent on yourself. While driving your safety is largely dependent on all of the other idiots out there.

I don’t know about “largely” . . . it’s been my overall experience that safe drivers have an incredibly low proportion of accidents, but that’s based strictly on people I know. I’ve only heard of a very few completely unpredictable accidents where the innocent person was the one killed. I’m not saying they don’t happen, but I suspect they’re incredibly rare compared to any other kind of accident.

27

Things that are difficult and dangerous make me feel more focused. More acute, I guess. To me, this hyper awareness and full engagement makes life seem like more no matter where you start from.

Sure, that’s true–but I get that same feeling from video games. The feeling can be enjoyable as recreation, but ideally you want to take risks that gain you something other than just a rush. I prefer not to risk actual death and dismemberment as a part of my recreational activities.

28

A possible reason to do base-jumping:

I don’t do it, so I’m speaking outa’ my ass, but being a base-jumper to me seems like an act of extreme selfishness: they are removing themselves from a society in which everyone is expected to depend on his fellow men, independence is frowned upon, and for a few minutes are putting themselves in a situation where their life literally and in a very accentuated way is in only their hand. For a few minutes they can experience ultimate, unadulterated freedom that simply isn’t available to most people in their regular lives. (i.e. the descrition Ayn Rand gave when Dagny and Rearden are riding the engine of the first train on the John Galt line).

In that sense it’s not that it feels good, but that it is right that it feels good. It is my opinion that, to the extent that what I said applies, good for them, in fact they are worthy of being admired.

Obviously, Dagny and Rearden were right in relying on their minds and skill, when riding across that bridge at (was it?) 100 mph. These guys are often wrong, they are overestimating their abilities and relying on luck. When they do that, they are irrational.

29

So I guess it boils down to different strokes for different folks? I don’t need to unnecessarily risk my life to appreciate, respect or enjoy life or “the good”, but evidently, some do. At least they provide entertainment for the rest of us. :slight_smile:

That’s very possible. People process stress hormones differently. Another consideration is evaluation of risk based on past experiences and personal capacities. When I see a good climber doing something outside of my range, it looks really dangerous to me. When I do things which look dangerous to others, it feels very safe to me.

30

Sure, that’s true–but I get that same feeling from video games. The feeling can be enjoyable as recreation, but ideally you want to take risks that gain you something other than just a rush. I prefer not to risk actual death and dismemberment as a part of my recreational activities.

I’ve played video games and it is not the “same” feeling. There may be similarities depending on the game from which you can intuit the feeling, but to consider it the same experience would a mistake. Back rubs feel good and sex feels good but back rubs are not sex.

31

I’ve played video games and it is not the “same” feeling. There may be similarities depending on the game from which you can intuit the feeling, but to consider it the same experience would a mistake. Back rubs feel good and sex feels good but back rubs are not sex.

Agreed. I enjoy video games too, but it doesn’t compare to doing it. Costs less, but there is no preparation for the actual risk of doing a real task.

Sims is a video game. It’s not real life.