Korea

Current Events
1

Right, so we’ve all had time to think about the latest flare-up of violence on the Korean peninsula, and some spirited debates in the chat as well.

But regardless, the facts are that North Korea isn’t going away, and the US will continue to occupy the country as well as stretch its military all over the world in sacrificial nation-building affairs, and yet still continue its Keynesian monetary descent into a fascist dictatorship.

You might have seen this article by fiction writer Tom Cain in the UK Daily Mail about a possible scenario leading to a nuclear world war. At first glance, it seems like nonsensical Tom Clancy-type stuff, but then again, hasn’t this kind of thing already happened all throughout history, just in those limited contexts? We aren’t exactly led by a foreign policy of reason, and this is exactly where our irrational policies could lead us.

What do you think about the article and/or the situation in general?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1333558/North-Korea-artillery-strike–Start-First-Nuclear-War.html

2

Question: Of all the possible wonderful articles you could have picked to cite here to start discussion, why did you choose this article? (Which I ran across yesterday, scanned, and went back to google search quickly after). If someone else here states its reasonable I will give it a look (I don’t have time at this moment), but I am not terribly confident in the conclusion suggested by the title, personally, at this moment.

3

The article was mildly amusing read. I especially enjoyed Obama’s non realistic actions in that story. ‘The end is coming’ isn’t anything new.

I for one hope that SK will retaliate with a full scale attack and destroy NK. There will be many casualties and it is unfortunate. There will be more casualties if they attack today than if they did 10 years ago. There will probably be still even more casualties if they wait for another 5-10 years. Even if they do not attack, I hope this will convince them to cease all humanitarian aid to NK and all diplomatic activities. These do nothing but strengthen the totalitarian NK regime.

I hope the rest of the world does the same. That is, help eliminate NK, and fully morally and otherwise back up South Korea in it’s just cause. I suspect NK will lose it’s will to fight sooner than people think, since I expect most of it’s population and army is already against the regime. Though if NK has nukes, it will probably use them. But I can see no way around that. Perhaps an overwhelming opening attack with outside help can devastate their nuclear capabilities before they can launch them? I can only hope.

Edit: Here’s one of my favourite photos, because it illustrates the results of ideas and philosophy so well:

4

Since there already seems to have been a moment of confusion with another member of the website, my earlier post is not meant to be seen as augmentative, it is an innocent and honest question. Thanks.

@Soth

Yep that is pretty much what happens when the dictator sucks the life force out of a country and uses all its economic gain for his personal benefit. Good picture, I have seen versions of that before.

5

Since there already seems to have been a moment of confusion with another member of the website, my earlier post is not meant to be seen as augmentative, it is an innocent and honest question. Thanks.

@Soth

Yep that is pretty much what happens when the dictator sucks the life force out of a country and uses all its economic gain for his personal benefit. Good picture, I have seen versions of that before.

Lol, it’s okay man. I really haven’t been looking at all the possible wonderful articles, so I just selected it at random, kind of like our foreign policy. I think it shows what the average person thinks or feels about how aimless and undefinable our foreign policy is, and that it will probably lead to chaos.

When you look at historical events, like for example how the Korean war started in the first place, you see the kind of mistakes made, which compound into more mistakes, and on and on, until you find the parties involved in some ridiculous position mostly of our own making.

6

I for one hope that SK will retaliate with a full scale attack and destroy NK.

How would China feel about a full scale attack? Paranoid much? What would fill the void if the DPRK is “destroyed”?

Don’t wake the cat that sleeps.

They are already at war - formally for the last 50 or so years. The last thing the South wants is to have to go to actual war. It is understandable also: as illustrated in the picture, the North has NOTHING to lose but a petty fiefdom vassal to Beijin. The South has Everything to lose and is governed by more than one person or committee. Furthermore, it is a hyper productive society ruled by a certain corporation or jaebol that has assets in both China and the DPRK - as well as awhole branch and very decisive penetration plan for North Korea.

The South doesn’t want war. China wont allow war. Russia can’t have war. The DPRK can’t defy China (or Russia). Where will War come from? A bug in the chain of command that sets out an unexpected domino effect?

If they went to war the NK population would only feel that they had been preparing and diverting all their food to their tallest soldiers for a reason. The Leadership would be validated.

I hope this will convince them to cease all humanitarian aid to NK and all diplomatic activities. These do nothing but strengthen the totalitarian NK regime.

Yes the aid goes to the soldiers. Yet, are you sure you hope for that to happen? Law of unintended consequences.

I hope the rest of the world does the same. That is, help eliminate NK, and fully morally and otherwise back up South Korea in it’s just cause.

What makes you think the South Koreans want that support?

What would fill the void of NK? Fratricide Guilt-ridden South Koreans backed by American forces a few miles away from Beijin and Vladivostok? Or Chinese troops realizing they have conquered their first territory, expanded, for the first time in 50 years?

Though if NK has nukes, it will probably use them. But I can see no way around that.

There are many ways around that, some are even worse than NKs using them. If you’re not going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they have nukes as a deterrent agent, then at least you might as well consider that they developed nukes as a commercial venture to sell to even crazier parties -

And of course there is an unintended possibility that could begin shaping a new East Asian geopolitical climate. I don’t find it likely as SOuth Koreans don’t want the burden of owning North Korea. This is Huntington’s theory:

North Korea’s government progressively liberalizes (as it happened in every other Asian Communist country), eventually joins South Korea and a new unified hyper-productive Capitalist Korea emerges with inherited Nuclear weapons. That would mean the first non Communist Asian Tiger would become military self-reliant. The American troops would be expelled, and the East Asian Arms race would accelerat e à la 1910 Europe.

Now, conciliatory arguments said; Korea is a tinderbox. I can’t imagine any way in which a war there could be contained within the peninsula.

1 Like
7

OK I see one glaring error in this article: it assumes Obama is a vertebrate, when he is in fact a invertebrate. How could anyone make such a mistake??!?! Well I guess the writer is from the UK, the land of Invertebrate Subjectivists so Obama probably does have a spine in comparison. Easy mistake I guess.

8

OK I see one glaring error in this article: it assumes Obama is a vertebrate, when he is in fact a invertebrate. How could anyone make such a mistake??!?! Well I guess the writer is from the UK, the land of Invertebrate Subjectivists so Obama probably does have a spine in comparison. Easy mistake I guess.

I’m not really seeing any of that as being bold or self-assertive. When a freer country is attacked, everyone immediately demands “restraint,” and they come under a large-scale assault, even getting hit with nukes, then we offer ultimatums and promise to start retaliating any time now, that’s exactly the kind of thing that got us a divided Korea in the first place. In the story, North Korea used nuclear weapons on the South three times, and our response after the first two was… issue an ultimatum. Then after the third one hit Seoul, our response was… to issue a really serious ultimatum! No, we mean it this time! We’ll fight back! We really will! Don’t push us or anything! We’re super serious this time! That is not self-assertive. Obama was only self-assertive when he said “Hold the countdown!” in the hollywood-style ending.