Scout Spirit: Objectivism and Scouting America's "Duty to God" Requirements

_ Preface: no child can have a religion – they do not have the life experience nor the mental capacity to think in such abstract terms.  _

As an Objectivist who also sees the immense value the Scouting program offers young people in terms of individual growth, self-sufficiency, life-, social-, and outdoor-skills, earning and achieving, approaching and interacting with adults, working as a team towards a goal, and so much more.

I originally composed this essay for the benefit of myself, and my children, but am sharing here in hopes it might provide guidance to other Scouts who are exploring Objectivism.

It’s not be construed as tedium imposed by the BSA (i.e. this essay isn’t a requirement). Scouting offers a wealth of experience and learning to children and young adults, and it’s very important to note that religion is NOT the essence of the Scouting program. Even in the more advanced adult training courses offered by Scouting America, it’s no secret that many participants do not consider themselves religious, and there are highly valued leaders that are openly atheist.

However, it’s important to understand the nuance of Scoutings “Duty to God” requirement so an atheist Scout is able to honestly and confidently navigate these complex conversations with their Scout leadership and smoothly progress in their rank advancement. The below is intended to supplement that learning through conversation, and allow the scout to complete the various “Duty to God” Scouting requirements.

The best way to teach a young child a philosophy is ostensively - by demonstrating the philosophy being lived in concrete form, preferably in daily life.

It is through this demonstration that a child can understand (to an extent) the beliefs of their parents.

Scouting is for those open to a youth’s spiritual (i.e. their consciousness),cognitive, and emotional development as morally ambitious individuals. To clarify the concept of “spirit”, as Objectivists, we reject that one’s “spirit” is somehow divorced from the physical world, or that the mind is divorced from the body.

Finally, it’s critical to note that Scouting offers emblems and recognition of a plethora of radically divergent religions, faiths and philosophies. It is this last category, philosophy, in which Objectivism resides. While there’s no requirement a scout adhere to any of the following, examples of the diverse emblems explicitly listed by the BSA include the following (it is clear that Objectivism is NOT a religion; the following examples allow for atheism and demonstrate that Scouting is not exclusive to “traditional” American Judeo-Christian belief systems:disappointed_face:

  • Baha’i , a religion[a] established by Baháʼu’lláh in the 19th century that teaches the essential worth of all religions and the unity of all people

  • Hindu , a diversity of ideas on spirituality and traditions, but have no ecclesiastical order, no unquestionable religious authorities, no governing body, nor a single founding prophet; Hindus can choose to be polytheistic, pantheistic, monotheistic, monistic, agnostic, atheistic or humanist.

  • Meher Baba , which teaches that the goal of all beings was to become conscious of their own divinity, and to realise the oneness of God.

  • Unitarian Universalist , who draw upon diverse theological and philosophical thought, including from religious humanism, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, neopaganism, atheism, agnosticism, New Age, and teachings of the Baháʼí Faith.

This list should make clear the broad variety of perspectives that are considered perfectly acceptable to the scouting program, many of which allow for the atheistic or agnostic tenants that are core to the Objectivist philosophy.

That being said, here are some examples of the Scouting requirements, and my responses:

Requirements (Complete Requirement 1 plus at least two others.)

  1. Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to God. Tell how you do your duty to God in your daily life:

  2. With a family member, attend a religious service or other activity that shows how your family expresses reverence for God:

  3. Earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age or grade. (Objectivist Perspective: NA - not required for advancement so we will disregard)

  4. Help with a local service project and talk with your den or family about how helping others is part of our duty to God (Objectivist Perspective: NA - not required as the below is an alternative)

  5. With the approval of your parent/guardian, den leader, or other caring adult, think of and then carry out an act of kindness or respect that you think shows duty to God.

In conclusion, the BSA Scouting program offers an incredible wealth of knowledge and life experiences that benefit young people for their entire lives…on this earth. When framed correctly, there is no contradiction between the values and goals of BSA Scouting and Objectivism.

Additionally, for a young person to intentionally skip out on the benefits of the BSA Scouting program because such a small, non-essential aspect of the program may be debated by those unfamiliar with Objectivism…_ would be a self-sacrificial act of cowardice _ - exactly the kind of cowardice both Objectivism and the BSA Scouting program would consider to be immoral and against the Scout law. 

I contend that by living life on this earth according to the Objectivist virtues and values, as well as the Scout law, a Scout is being reverent to their highest value - Reason.

Sincerely, 

An Order-of-the-Arrow & Eagle Scout Cubmaster and Den Leader with two sons in a Scout troop and a daughter still in Cub Scouts

 

In the past, it was a requirement of BSA that a member believe in god. No evidence has been presented that anything has changed. That doesn’t mean that belief in some sort of god is essential to the identiyy of scouting, but it is a requirement, not just an option of encouragement. Dishonesty is antithetical to both scouting and Objectivism. Your list of examples supposedly supporting the consistency of scouting with atheism only shows that they are non-sectarian in their requirement for a believe in the supernatural, save for a reference to Unitarians. However, being an atheist Unitarian (which is an option for Unitarians) is grounds for exclusion, ask the guys in Idaho Falls.

Intellectual dishonesty (“spin”) is not a virtue. If and when BSA clearly drops the requirement to believe in the supernatural, there is room for discussion, otherwise, this is a repudiation of the virtues of integrity and honesty.

 

1 Like

Yeah I think this comes across as motivated reasoning. I was in scouts for a bit and the religious stuff in my troop was pretty overbearing and awkward to be around. It obviously depends on what your local organization is like, and it wasn’t quite the case for me, but there are a lot of cases of troops actively excluding kids who don’t meet their religious requirements. Unfortunately, BSA is a religious organization and that’s that.

4-H was fun though!

22 hours ago, DavidOdden said:

In the past, it was a requirement of BSA that a member believe in god. No evidence has been presented that anything has changed. That doesn’t mean that belief in some sort of god is essential to the identiyy of scouting, but it is a requirement, not just an option of encouragement. Dishonesty is antithetical to both scouting and Objectivism. Your list of examples supposedly supporting the consistency of scouting with atheism only shows that they are non-sectarian in their requirement for a believe in the supernatural, save for a reference to Unitarians. However, being an atheist Unitarian (which is an option for Unitarians) is grounds for exclusion, ask the guys in Idaho Falls.

Intellectual dishonesty (“spin”) is not a virtue. If and when BSA clearly drops the requirement to believe in the supernatural, there is room for discussion, otherwise, this is a repudiation of the virtues of integrity and honesty.

 

 

I appreciate your response and am unable to find the reference to Idaho Falls that mention - would you mind sharing a link?

Regardless, while some Scout Troops (and leadership) are thoroughly religious, asserting that Scouting “requires a belief in the supernatural” drops a bit of context. 

Scouting America’s own Declaration of Religious Principle states it is “absolutely nonsectarian” and the policy of respecting the individual’s journey often allow for a highly personal definition of the term “God” or “Higher Power.”, framing this duty as adherence to spiritual or moral values that the individual Scout holds paramount.

Put simply, objective reality doesn’t care about our hopes, dreams or wishes - it is, effectively, “a power higher than us”…and we show reverence by recognizing and respecting the values and virtues that recognize this fact.

I’m not aware of any official documents or guiding principles that preclude one from allowing this to be their personal definition of “God” or “higher power”, despite how religious “some” Scouting units may choose to be.

My hope is this write-up encourages Scouts who are interested in Objectivism a path through the fog of mysticism that can attach itself to the organization by giving them a rational-ethics based framework with which to discuss these topics confidently and proudly - anything but a repudiation of honesty and integrity.

If the scout finds mysticism has permeated their unit in a way that slows or stops their advancement, I’d encourage them to find a new one that fits them - and not give up on the incredible real-world experiences that Scouting is composed of.

1 hour ago, Pokyt said:

Yeah I think this comes across as motivated reasoning. I was in scouts for a bit and the religious stuff in my troop was pretty overbearing and awkward to be around. It obviously depends on what your local organization is like, and it wasn’t quite the case for me, but there are a lot of cases of troops actively excluding kids who don’t meet their religious requirements. Unfortunately, BSA is a religious organization and that’s that.

4-H was fun though!

Appreciate your response; I’m sorry it was overbearing and I agree it totally depends on the local organization. I think this is where a lot of the different opinions come from - the units do have a discretion to focus on what they want to focus on.

The current scouting program has a robust youth protection system, includes girls in the Scout troops, and explicitly invites diversity in background, experiences and beliefs. There are merit badges for cyber-security, Artificial intelligence, Geocaching, game design, programming, etc. It’s quite different than it was 20, 30, or 40 years ago.

While I wouldn’t call Scouting a “religious” organization, it’s definitely a conflict to avoid, no doubt.

Many Scouts who identify as atheist or agnostic remain in the program without issue, often with guidance on how to respond to the “Duty to God” question in a way that respects the organization’s rules (e.g., by interpreting “duty to God” as a “duty to good” or reverence for the natural world, objective reality, laws of physics, etc).

I appreciate the responses, this continues to be the only Objectivist forum that engages in a knowledgeable and serious manner on this type of topic.

2 hours ago, Reasoner said:

My hope is this write-up encourages Scouts who are interested in Objectivism a path through the fog of mysticism that can attach itself to the organization by giving them a rational-ethics based framework with which to discuss these topics confidently and proudly - anything but a repudiation of honesty and integrity.

I approve, then.

2 hours ago, Reasoner said:

My hope is this write-up encourages Scouts who are interested in Objectivism a path through the fog of mysticism that can attach itself to the organization by giving them a rational-ethics based framework with which to discuss these topics confidently and proudly - anything but a repudiation of honesty and integrity.

2 hours ago, Reasoner said:

I think this is where a lot of the different opinions come from - the units do have a discretion to focus on what they want to focus on.

I completely agree that participating in programs like Scouts has a lot of value to parents and kids, and yeah whether or not you face discrimination is almost entirely dependent on where you live. If you are fortunate enough to have a more tolerant experience, the presence of that religious element might actually be a good learning opportunity for families to give a soft introduction to ethics, the various schools of thought surrounding it, and how to respectfully coexist with people of those different persuasions.

If I could go a little off topic, I was wondering how the push for co-ed troops has impacted the experience for the kids? I always thought of Boy Scouts as a great opportunity for boys to bond and get a early sense of healthy male relationships and the camaraderie that comes with them, so I was a little disheartened when the “boy” part of that was taken out of it. Has the change been very dramatic?

4 hours ago, Reasoner said:

I appreciate your response and am unable to find the reference to Idaho Falls that mention - would you mind sharing a link?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bravescouters/posts/2465376156981114/

 

As far as documenting official scout policy, doctrine and requirements, we can only authoritatively point to what they themselves publicly say. That includes any claim that they officially accept Meher Baba-ism, Santaria, Voodoo or the Prince Philip Movement (New Guinean cargo cult). We can look for official guidance where we see that their official guidelines are all 404.

 

In light of the extant “expired” evidence that scouts “have a duty to God”, which is still affirmed in the oath, and as a defining attribute (“Reverence”) that one must “Be reverent toward God. Be faithful in your religious duties”, the counter-approach of a “personal definition” of God is as valid as a personal redefinition of “trustworthy” meaning “say what is required to get what you want”, or redefining “polite” as “not swearing at your teachers”. Words have objective meanings. “God” does not objectively refer to just the Pentacostal God Howard, or Yahweh, Allah, Zoroastrian Ahura Mazda, Zeus, Shiva or Odin. There is a completely different word for “that which exists” – existence. In choosing the word “God” in their official religious requirements, they made a choice in favor of God over Existence. There could have instead been a “duty to existence”, but that choice was not made, instead, the duty is to God, whichever variety one encounters.

It does, however, turn out, that there is no official analog of the Objectivist honesty and integrity virtues, all that exists is the “Trustworthy” line in the Scout Law: “Tell the truth and keep promises. People can depend on you”. I probably interpolated from CSA days in the 60’s when we were told to be “morally straight” and were lead to think that was about “honesty” as well as “good”. So there is no scouting-internal problem with intellectual dishonesty.

Why would one select BSA over one of the secular alternatives? That to me is the big puzzle.

7 minutes ago, DavidOdden said:

Why would one select BSA over one of the secular alternatives? That to me is the big puzzle.

Because it’s more well known and therefor more well funded and organized. I said 4-H was fun, but Scouts is definitely a far more involved and focused program in comparison to pretty much all of the alternatives.

Specifying God in a theism frame is the ‘proper’ conceptual formulation. If you are able to integrate ‘your own being’ to the rest of existence , the concept of God would be superfluous,even contradictory.

Shivoham

shivoham

shivoham

21 hours ago, Pokyt said:

I approve, then.

I completely agree that participating in programs like Scouts has a lot of value to parents and kids, and yeah whether or not you face discrimination is almost entirely dependent on where you live. If you are fortunate enough to have a more tolerant experience, the presence of that religious element might actually be a good learning opportunity for families to give a soft introduction to ethics, the various schools of thought surrounding it, and how to respectfully coexist with people of those different persuasions.

If I could go a little off topic, I was wondering how the push for co-ed troops has impacted the experience for the kids? I always thought of Boy Scouts as a great opportunity for boys to bond and get a early sense of healthy male relationships and the camaraderie that comes with them, so I was a little disheartened when the “boy” part of that was taken out of it. Has the change been very dramatic?

Really appreciate the consideration and response! Regarding the acceptance of girls, here’s how it works (in my son’s Troop at least):

All the requirements, merit badges, ranks, etc. are the same for everyone, obviously. Anyone can pursue Eagle, etc.

They do what is called a “linked Troop”, where the girls and boys are each a separate Troop. They share leadership (I.e. any leader can sign off on any Scout’s advancements) but each troop plans their own meetings and camp-outs independently, even though they take place at the same time and location.

Keeping in mind that Scouting is Scout-planned and led (for those unfamiliar, it really is…the leaders will let a meeting start 15 minutes late if the Scouts don’t get their act together…this is part of what makes it a great learning experience for these 12 to 18 year olds) a typical Troop meeting would kick off with the girls troop on one side, boys troop on the other, they do the flag ceremony and announcements, and then they split off into two separate troop meetings.

Girls might choose to focus on fishing…boys might choose to focus on cooking, for example.

Same with camp outs…they camp in separate locations (no sharing tents obviously) and plan their camp out activities independently…girls might do small boat sailing, boys might plan a hike.

There are about 25+ girls in their troop, and from what I’ve seen they take it pretty seriously. They really respect the program and are doing right by it.

Only once have I seen a bit of “flirty flirty” after meetings while the Scouts are waiting for their rides…but outside of that it really hasn’t changed very much.

It’s great for me because my daughter can be a part of the same linked troop as her two older brothers…and I only have one location I need to be at on Tuesday nights, haha :slight_smile:

20 hours ago, DavidOdden said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bravescouters/posts/2465376156981114/



Why would one select BSA over one of the secular alternatives? That to me is the big puzzle.

Oh wow that thread escalated fast :slight_smile:  I can say from experience I have absolutely no clue what religion (if any) the people in our Scout Troop are. From experience I’ve seen that Indians in particular are huge fans of Scouting, and there’s a chance a good number of them are Hindu. I have no idea, and we meet at a Methodist Church. I did leadership training with a gentleman that was Muslim and started his own Scout Troop, and I believe their sponsoring org was a VFW and not even a church.

There is absolutely no reason anyone needs to share their specific beliefs or philosophy to be a part of Scouting - as asserted in my original post, the “Duty to God” requirements can be met by anyone without ever saying the words “Atheist”, “Christian”, Budhhist" or “Flying Sphaghetti Monster”.

No idea why or how this guy thought it was a good idea to advertise his atheism to antagonistic or bigoted people…it’s just not necessary or appropriate in Scouting to evangelize whatever it is you do or don’t personally believe - the real purpose is the kids and teaching them to deal confidently with the world around them.

Regarding the alternatives to Scouting…the Scouting program as originally conceived by Baden Powell is a tightly integrated program centered around the Patrol Method, which teaches the scouts to work with each other based on seniority rather than run to adults. It incorporates and integrates the EDGE teaching method (Explain, Do, Guide, Enable) with the rank and merit badge advancements, which the scouts must methodically accomplish and approach the adult leadership themselves in order to get the recognition.

While these attributes might be mirrored in other programs, I would argue that the number of participants and dedication of the leaders in Scouting America give a much more robust experience that ties back to over 100 years of continuous program refinement.

For what it’s worth, Scouting America also owns MASSIVE amounts of beautiful land held exclusively for Scouts - including Philmont and Sea Base, etc.

Finally, the Youth Protection System, background checks, Two-Deep leadership, vetting of program locations/activities and National/Council/District level leadership probably provide a safer program than some of these smaller orgs., which is a really important thing these days.

I’ve never seen these other orgs operate…for all I know they are fantastic…I’m just familiar with Scouting so that’s what I went with :slight_smile: