Is it immoral to buy government bonds - to make a profit off tax payers and to help fund government’s immoral actions?
A basic principle I follow is to never become financially entangled in the credit/debt system. By operating solely within the financial safety of the capital based system, it is possible to avoid exposure to the risk of becoming economic collatoral damage. This practice has repeatedly proven itself to work well over the years.
A basic principle I follow is to never become financially entangled in the credit/debt system. By operating solely within the financial safety of the capital based system, it is possible to avoid exposure to the risk of becoming economic collatoral damage. This practice has repeatedly proven itself to work well over the years.
Are you saying that borrowing money is immoral?
Are you saying that borrowing money is immoral?
No, not immoral as in evil… I just personally regard incurring debt as unwise behavior. The Bible says that the borrower is the slave of the lender, and I think that’s sound advice to owe no man and live in freedom. You’ll never find me gambling in the zero sum debt-market “casinos” either, because one person’s gain can only come at another’s loss. The only way to become inedible prey is not to attempt to become a predator. Instead, I prefer to participate in constructive Capitalist ventures which create wealth.
No, not immoral as in evil… I just personally regard incurring debt as unwise behavior. The Bible says that the borrower is the slave of the lender, and I think that’s sound advice to owe no man and live in freedom. You’ll never find me gambling in the zero sum debt-market “casinos” either, because one person’s gain can only come at another’s loss. The only way to become inedible prey is not to attempt to become a predator. Instead, I prefer to participate in constructive Capitalist ventures which create wealth.
Clearly you don’t understand what the entire purpose of the financial markets is then. If you have a good idea but need the funds, people give you an investment and earn a profit at the same time. It is to the self interest of both parties, one to make a profit on savings and the other to be able to carry out their idea.
Clearly you don’t understand what the entire purpose of the financial markets is then. If you have a good idea but need the funds, people give you an investment and earn a profit at the same time. It is to the self interest of both parties, one to make a profit on savings and the other to be able to carry out their idea.
That is a perfectly legitimate purpose for those who haven’t worked to earn enough money to fund their own ventures. But there is also an illegitimate purpose of the financial markets. Zero sum gambling on debt instruments. What have you learned from the “debt casino” collapse of 2008?
10,000 people a day are getting their first Social Security check. And add to that, one out of every 19 people is already getting Social Security Disability checks. one in every 5 children eat government food in government schools. Nearly half the households in America are getting monthly government checks. One third of the households in America are on Medicare.
10,000 people a day are getting their first Social Security check. And add to that, one out of every 19 people is already getting Social Security Disability checks. one in every 5 children eat government food in government schools. Nearly half the households in America are getting monthly government checks. One third of the households in America are on Medicare.
We have become a nation of deadbeats and dependents. And it was all done with the consent of the voters.
ruveyn1
No, not immoral as in evil.
Is there some other way to be immoral?
Is there some other way to be immoral?
Sure there is, Nicky. There are many ways, as immorality has a gradient to it with merely stupid at one end and outright overt evil at the other..
Sure there is, Nicky. There are many ways, as immorality has a gradient to it with merely stupid at one end and outright overt evil at the other..
Alright, just checking. So you do think a voluntary arrangement between a lender and a debtor is immoral, and you base this view on the Bible.
Even though debtors’ prisons and slavery have both been abolished centuries ago, and replaced with bankruptcy proceedings that objectively limit the obligations of a debtor to a lender to absolutely remove the possibility of slavery or even so much as unreasonable hardship (actual language used in American legislation).
How is this view different from the leftists you hate so much denouncing forms of voluntary contracts as “immoral”, again?
Alright, just checking. So you do think a voluntary arrangement between a lender and a debtor is immoral,
No.
In my opinion it’s just unwise to become enslaved to others through debt. I’ve come to truly enjoy the freedom of not owing one cent to anyone, and have found that operating on the principle of 100% solvency has insulated me from the bad effects of economic and political cycles.
and you base this view on the Bible.
No.
However the Bible does confirm my direct personal observations of the world… and I can appreciate that.
Even though debtors’ prisons and slavery have both been abolished centuries ago, and replaced with bankruptcy proceedings that objectively limit the obligations of a debtor to a lender to absolutely remove the possibility of slavery or even so much as unreasonable hardship (actual language used in American legislation).
Even though today people can get others to pay off their debts, I still regard debt as economic slavery simply because it is antithetical to the economic freedom of solvency.
How is this view different from the leftists you hate so much denouncing forms of voluntary contracts as “immoral”, again?
Hm… I’m not sure what you mean. Can you give an example of leftists denouncing a voluntary contract?
You can base the above view on Shakespear. Neither a borrower nor a lender be. From Hamlet.
ruveyn1
You can base the above view on Shakespear. Neither a borrower nor a lender be. From Hamlet.
ruveyn1
Wise words can be found everywhere. 
A basic principle I follow is to never become financially entangled in the credit/debt system. By operating solely within the financial safety of the capital based system, it is possible to avoid exposure to the risk of becoming economic collatoral damage. This practice has repeatedly proven itself to work well over the years.
Your savings sitting in your bank account aren’t actually there you realise? So you are entangled in the “credit/debt system” whether you want to be or not. I guess you could advocate making fractional reserve banking illegal, but this would be an initiation of force against banks, and so would require more cognitive dissonance from you.
We have become a nation of deadbeats and dependents. And it was all done with the consent of the voters.
Those deadbeat children, elderly people, and disabled people!
Just think Greece. For there is where America’s future lies: Austerity measures, protesting, strikes, rioting, and property destruction.
What an insult to America. What happened in Greece cannot happen in America for several reasons. One is that the US’s debt’s are denominated in a currency that it controls ie the US dollar. Whereas Greece’s debt’s are denominated in a currency it does not control ie the Euro. The economic implications to this are vast and I think you should read about them before making ridiculous comparisons!
What an insult to America. What happened in Greece cannot happen in America for several reasons. One is that the US’s debt’s are denominated in a currency that it controls ie the US dollar. Whereas Greece’s debt’s are denominated in a currency it does not control ie the Euro. The economic implications to this are vast and I think you should read about them before making ridiculous comparisons!
What happened in Greece also happened in Argentina. And Argentina was in full control of its currency. Comment?
Your savings sitting in your bank account aren’t actually there you realise?
Yes. And that’s why I never use a bank to store wealth when there is such a wide variety of other far more practical places to store it. For example: in business, real estate, homes, vehicles, tools, clothes, and food… in things which are actually used for living.
So you are entangled in the “credit/debt system” whether you want to be or not.
I can understand how you’d assume that. People who are entangled themselves naturally tend to think that everyone else lives in the same way that they do. Truth is I’m actually not the least bit dependent upon the credit/debt system, because the only use I have for a bank is to cash checks. The credit/debt system is economically toxic. It’s like a vampire that sucks out your wealth and then spits out your economic corpse. So I protect myself by always being 100% solvent, and have no business loans, no vehicle loans, no mortgages, no equity lines of credit, no student loans, no personal loans, and a zero credit card balance.
Works better than garlic and silver bullets. 
I guess you could advocate making fractional reserve banking illegal, but this would be an initiation of force against banks, and so would require more cognitive dissonance from you.
I’m not sure why you would believe that I could actually care about something for which I have no use. Just to be clear, I’m not concerned about banks like you are.
What an insult to America.
America’s bankrupt deadbeat debtor government is an insult to America… as are all of the bankrupt deadbeat debtors living in this country who created it in their own image.
What happened in Greece cannot happen in America for several reasons. One is that the US’s debt’s are denominated in a currency that it controls ie the US dollar. Whereas Greece’s debt’s are denominated in a currency it does not control ie the Euro. The economic implications to this are vast and I think you should read about them before making ridiculous comparisons!
America’s insolvent liberal socialist deadbeat debtor government is no different from the dime-a-dozen liberal social welfare states of Europe.
When most of the people in a nation are living irresponsibly up to their eyeballs in debt… don’t expect the government they create in their own image to be any different.
America’s bankrupt deadbeat debtor government is an insult to America… as are all of the bankrupt deadbeat debtors living in this country who created it in their own image.
America’s insolvent liberal socialist deadbeat debtor government is no different from the dime-a-dozen liberal social welfare states of Europe.
When most of the people in a nation are living irresponsibly up to their eyeballs in debt… don’t expect the government they create in their own image to be any different.
This site is becoming less and less appealing to explore philosophical issues when it is flooded with this nonsense in almost every topic.
This site is becoming less and less appealing to explore philosophical issues when it is flooded with this nonsense in almost every topic.
This nation is becoming the America of Atlas Shrugged… just as Ayn Rand foretold.
This site is becoming less and less appealing to explore philosophical issues when it is flooded with this nonsense in almost every topic.
I’ve split this set of posts (about the “credit/debit system”) into its own thread.
Earthquakes are not dangerous. It’s buildings which are dangerous during earthquakes. So stay outside where it’s safe.
In rare cases the ground opens up and one can fall in. Also tsunamis generated by earthquakes can be a disaster. Recall the great tsunami of 2004.
Which proves that living near the sea can be dangerous to one’s health.
ruveyn1