The recent war in Lebanon

I hope it isn’t the contrarian in me, but I’m not completely disheartened by the recent Israeli campaign in Lebanon.

Yes, the Israelis were overly concerned about civilian casualties. I would have loved to see the Hezbollah destroyed. It’s revolting to see concrete-bound people claim that the Hezbollah are freedom-fighters. Do they realize that being bossed around by a dictator is not “freedom” just because one reduces the number of generations up the tree of evolution where you and the dictator share a common ancestor! That makes a freedom-fighter out of every man who picks up arms and makes his dad or brother the new dictator.

It is true that Israeli and U.S. public opinion came down on the side of thinking that Israel gave up too soon. The official Arab reaction was muted. Even the Syrians declared a few times that they were moving their army to increasing levels of readiness, but did little else. Yes, Assad came out after the war and spoke about taking back the Golan Heights; but, relative to past Arab reaction, he pretty much kept his trap shut. [iran is a different story.]

The problem is, I do not think Israelis would have supported actions that would be required for the next phase, of really finishing off the Hezbollah while it hides among a sympathetic population. As a result, the Israelis would have ended up like the U.S. in Iraq, not defeating the enemy anyway, and simply bogged down trying to hold territory. The next phase would have been a turn in Israeli opinion, asking to have their boys come back home.

So, while I criticize the Israelis for their modern loss of moral certainty, I cannot criticize their politicians for understanding this. By stopping at this point, the Israeli government actually increases the likelihood of public support when it starts its next campaign against the Hezbollah.

I also do not think that the better thing would have been to fight no war at all. While it’s revolting to see some Lebanese celebrating in the streets, declaring that Hezbollah won the war and is their country’s savior, those are the images one can expect. On the other hand, there are also more Lebanese who realize that something has to be done about the Hezbollah. Less of them can evade what should have been obvious already. Sometimes, one has to light a fire under people, to goad them into action.

Some say that non-Hezbollah Lebanese are powerless to change the status quo. In think this is false. It may be true in the short term. However, if they have the will and motivation, they can do it. A few years ago who thought the Syrians would leave either? Every faction of the Lebanese has some history of military action. I think the possibility for change is higher than it was before the war.

Such change can go either way; it could pitch Lebanon into civil war – but, that is not Israel’s problem. The Israelis have given the Lebanese more than a huge prod – they gave them a hard kick in the rump. More of them realize that something must be done about the status quo. The next fight is essentially internal, and Lebanese. If the good guys lose, Israel’s next war might be against the Lebanese army. However, I don’t think this is a foregone conclusion.

Replacing one UN resolution with another seems to be an empty victory, even a victory for the bad guys. However, more than that has happened. Israel has moved from asking that the UN resolution be enforced to demonstrating that it is willing to act if it is not. Destroying some of Hezbollah’s infrastructure and weapons is not something to be pooh-poohed either.

The biggest problem I see in the final outcome is that a larger force of U.N. troops may forestall a future Israeli attempt to attack Lebanon again. This is the biggest additional negative that Israel has created. It is extremely important that the Israelis monitor the progress of the U.N. forces and Lebanese army and only pull back to the extent that they (Israel) is happy with the progress those new forces are making.

Meanwhile, Israel needs to start planning the next invasion, which might be required in a year or two: how will they neutralize the UN? what lessons did they learn from this war that they can apply to the next? is there a way to take out the media stations they failed to take out this time? is there a way to reduce the threats from incoming missiles? is there a better way to shut down supply routes from Syria? how do they improve ground intelligence? is there a better way for them to take the initiative and surprize the enemy? and so on…

As much as I would love to see Israel execute a clear, ruthless and decisive campaign, I also know that isn’t going to be. I therefore view what happened as one step in a long series of steps. According to an op-ed by Amir Taheri in the WSJ (Aug 25th), there are signs that Israel’s prodding of Lebanon in the recent campaign is having some effect. it is definitely worth a read in its entirety.

Meanwhile, Kofi Annanis being predictably unhelpful. He says that U.N. troops “will not be used along Lebanon’s long and porous border with Syria to stop any shipments of arms reaching Hizballah” and "Troops are not going in there to disarm – let’s be clear.” The Israeli’s need to nip this in the bud. They should ask the U.N. to hold off deploying until the U.N. can stop talking about all the things they aren’t going to do, and instead explain what they plan to do. They should say: “don’t come here unless you’re serious about U.N. resolutions”. The U.S. also needs to back them up.

It is important not to take the pressure off the Lebanese. They should understand that Israel expects a regular (if not uniform) improvement in their handling of the Hezbollah and is willing to help if they stay on track and hurt if they do not.

I think it would have absolutely been better to not go to war at all. Hizballah, Syria, and Iran view this as a victory. It has emboldened them, and they now know that Israel is as much of a paper tiger as the United States. They had suspected it for a while, due to the various concessions that have been made to the Palestinians. But now they know. They can provoke the hell out of Israel without having to worry about being destroyed. Futhermore, their use of civilians as shields worked as planned…the world condemned Israel. The only gain Israel made in this war is a temporary weakening of Hizballah–one that will not last long, as they are already rearming.

I see the argument that Israel may now be willing to fight a real war, next time around. I have seen nothing to make me think that Israeli politicians will behave any differently than Western politicians. There have been numerous large-scale terrorist attacks against the West, and we still half-ass the war. I was impressed with some of Ehud Olmert’s rhetoric, until he showed that he is all talk and no walk. He gave in. He will continue to give in, probably by withdrawing from West Bank settlements. Israel needs Benjamin Netanyahu, but in the current political climate, I don’t see him gaining any real power.

I think it would have absolutely been better to not go to war at all. Hizballah, Syria, and Iran view this as a victory. It has emboldened them, and they now know that Israel is as much of a paper tiger as the United States. They had suspected it for a while, due to the various concessions that have been made to the Palestinians. But now they know. They can provoke the hell out of Israel without having to worry about being destroyed. Futhermore, their use of civilians as shields worked as planned…the world condemned Israel. The only gain Israel made in this war is a temporary weakening of Hizballah–one that will not last long, as they are already rearming.

I see the argument that Israel may now be willing to fight a real war, next time around. I have seen nothing to make me think that Israeli politicians will behave any differently than Western politicians. There have been numerous large-scale terrorist attacks against the West, and we still half-ass the war. I was impressed with some of Ehud Olmert’s rhetoric, until he showed that he is all talk and no walk. He gave in. He will continue to give in, probably by withdrawing from West Bank settlements. Israel needs Benjamin Netanyahu, but in the current political climate, I don’t see him gaining any real power.

:worry:

Charles Krauthammer wrote an interesting column on Hezbollah’s hollow “victory”.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/…the_moment.html

For some reason the press hasn’t given this recent statement much publicity:

"We did not think, even 1 percent, that the capture would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude. You ask me, if I had known on July 11 … that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not.‘’

– Hasan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader, Aug. 27

The problem is, I do not think Israelis would have supported actions that would be required for the next phase, of really finishing off the Hezbollah while it hides among a sympathetic population. As a result, the Israelis would have ended up like the U.S. in Iraq, not defeating the enemy anyway, and simply bogged down trying to hold territory. The next phase would have been a turn in Israeli opinion, asking to have their boys come back home.

So, while I criticize the Israelis for their modern loss of moral certainty, I cannot criticize their politicians for understanding this. By stopping at this point, the Israeli government actually increases the likelihood of public support when it starts its next campaign against the Hezbollah.

Actually most Israelis thought that a more massive air stirkes backup (instead of the “house to house” method of fighting, where soldiers have to go into a house which is known to have Hizbalists in it) should have been used. And also that a wider ground military operation should have taken place a lot sooner.

The “house to house” method did have some limited advantages though: going into houses also used Israel for intelligence, and to understand the way the enemy operates, and land forces were the only way to destroy bunkers buried 40 meters underground. Only there were too little of them and too late.

I also do not think that the better thing would have been to fight no war at all. While it’s revolting to see some Lebanese celebrating in the streets, declaring that Hezbollah won the war and is their country’s savior, those are the images one can expect. On the other hand, there are also more Lebanese who realize that something has to be done about the Hezbollah. Less of them can evade what should have been obvious already. Sometimes, one has to light a fire under people, to goad them into action.

…

The Israelis have given the Lebanese more than a huge prod – they gave them a hard kick in the rump. More of them realize that something must be done about the status quo. The next fight is essentially internal, and Lebanese.

And changes are taking place in Lebanon. Here is a part of a conversation of mine with someone from Lebanon that tells me what is going on there, according to his impression. Of course this is just his optimistic impression, but he has lived in Lebanon most his life, he is over 40, he has gone through the civil war and everything, so I listen to his impression about things inside Lebanon. His English isn’t very good though :whistle: :

how things are going on at your side? here it is very bad

In Israel? there were a lot of accusations about who’s fault is it that Israel didn’t accomplish much in this war.

very bad? in what way?

they start to wake up and see how much it was strong the impact

and they start an argue between themselves in the Shiite community

what is the argument about?

the cost of that war

whether or not it was worth to kidnap the soldiers?

130 000 place to live are dust

sure no

Nasrallah himself said that

more that 1000 company destroyed, 500 is closing, 1000 is surviving till now

but what are they arguing about? it is a fact that the damages are huge

all the Shiite area is totally dust, yes. and did that worth the price of kidnapping and making a war with Israel

guess they wont be kidnapping soldiers any time soon ha?

look it is very complicated.

hisbullah is starting to be squeezed

they stooped the money flow to them from Iran and Syria. and the weapons.

the army is very strict in that every day he is getting armor from there depots

and hezbullah wasn’t expecting that

they are destroying all the tunnels they have

plus that the IDF is doing that 2. It is attacking some depots in the area it is still occupying

and now the Shiite they start to feel the taste of loosing

Where does the army get weapons from?

the Lebanese army didn’t enter all the southern area yet

really he don’t need that strong weapons

coz he is not going to a war. he is officially going to keep peace and calm in the area

yeah, but what about all the speeches about the heroism of Hizballah made by commanders in your army?

it is all propaganda my dear. be calm and wait

propaganda for what purpose?

u will see hezbulla soon will be zero

if u say the contrary u will be against them. but if u say what they want to hear they will cool down till the time they feel that they are nothing

let me tell u about hezbulla. it is not an army they don’t have places. every Shiite is a hezbullah, they get salary from the hezbullah org, but he don’t have place to stay. he goes normally to his work and house and when they have something to do they go to some place they choose at the last moment

every person who lives in the southern area and Shiite and get paid from hezbullah have rockets and armor in his house depot or car.

so they do the attack and go normally to work. this why it is hard to fight hezbullah.

Did you learn this only after the war? Did you know about the rockets just after the war?

yes. people here start to talk. funny how it works. how thing were going on.

talk about what?

all the mens found in the south in the time of war were hizbullah, not civilians. they wear normal closes. u cant distinguish them from fighters. very organized and very secret.

The only way to fight them now after more than 50% of their power has been attacked is by the way it is going on now

which is?

stop all the funds so they cant be able to pay. and in the coming weeks when all the troops arrived it will be totally controlled. any way nasrallah is dead. and now his peoples start to insult him.

How can you control the money that is transfered to private citizens?

we have a new rules in here if u get more than 10000 $ u have to prove that it is from a clean

source

and the cache money from Iran direct to hezbullah from the border has been stopped.

patrols on the border with Syria?

yes. weapons and money. they have already stopped many attempt

how was the cash delivered in the first place? directly to the account of the Party Hizballa?

no, cache. hand to hand in the last days it appears. and it seems that it was this way all the time passed.

who was passing cache?

Syria

I want to know something else. how is your business doing?

ohhhhhhhhhhhh very bad. lot of losses

…

The biggest problem I see in the final outcome is that a larger force of U.N. troops may forestall a future Israeli attempt to attack Lebanon again. This is the biggest additional negative that Israel has created. It is extremely important that the Israelis monitor the progress of the U.N. forces and Lebanese army and only pull back to the extent that they (Israel) is happy with the progress those new forces are making.

Meanwhile, Israel needs to start planning the next invasion …

As much as I would love to see Israel execute a clear, ruthless and decisive campaign, I also know that isn’t going to be. I therefore view what happened as one step in a long series of steps.

Meanwhile, Kofi Annanis being predictably unhelpful. He says that U.N. troops “will not be used along Lebanon’s long and porous border with Syria to stop any shipments of arms reaching Hizballah” and "Troops are not going in there to disarm – let’s be clear.” The Israeli’s need to nip this in the bud. They should ask the U.N. to hold off deploying until the U.N. can stop talking about all the things they aren’t going to do, and instead explain what they plan to do. They should say: “don’t come here unless you’re serious about U.N. resolutions”. The U.S. also needs to back them up.

I agree with that completely. This would be a painful case if our politicians will fail to insist on this, like they failed so badly at negotiation and at shaping the final version of the UN resolution.

Thanks Ifat. Good to have the perspective of someone who is there (and who agrees with me :whistle: ).

My broad point was not that Israel fought the war the way an Objectivist would like, but that – given the options they can execute – they did what was a decent first battle. It was not a loss, but one will only know the outcome after a series of battles: some not so obviously military.

So, while the critics who say that Israeli should have been more ruthless about more widespread bombing are right, that does not imply that they have appeased the Hezbollah by their current limited campaign. The real “Neville Chamberlains” aren’t the Israelis, but the non-Hezbollah Lebanese. A year after Syrians left, they’re not exactly powerful; and, with business and life improving, it is not surprising that they would evade the longer-term, and start to think they can simply live with Hezbollah around. Israel’s first battle has a single message: “even if you guys think you can hold your noses and live with Hezbollah, we won’t let you; and, if you need some help beating Hezbollah up, we’re happy to help.”

The final outcome depends on many more battles – and on the U.S.'s actions regarding Iran as well. (I’m convinced that – at some point – the U.S. needs at least to throw Iran into turmoil and let the mullahs focus inward… but, that’s a whole different thread.)

Moose Said:

“They can provoke the hell out of Israel without having to worry about being destroyed.”

This is the most important point. The only way to stop these guys is to convince them that, if they don’t stop attacking us, we will kill every last one of them.

So, Israel’s concern for civilian life and quick withdrawal does embolden the Muslim world, but would it not have emboldened them more if Israel had done nothing? I’m not sure, but my opinion is “no.” If Israel had not acted the fascists would not have proof that world opinion was on its side, and that the Israelis were unwilling to finish a war.

–Dan Edge

Lebanese president Lahoud harbored Nasrallah during part of the Lebanon War

Israeli generals, after receiving information from intelligence about his whereabouts, could have had the presidential palace bombed or accepted the fact that their prey had again slipped out of reach. Government leaders in Jerusalem held back on the order for an aerial strike for fear of igniting a military clash with Syria. Instead, Israeli warplanes pummeled a Lebanese army camp near the presidential palace without advance warning.

Very severe, if this is true.

1701=1559 (Talking about UN resolutions).

On Yom Kippur, Oct. 2, 24 hours after the last Israeli soldier left South Lebanon and the day before UNIFIL published its rules of engagement, Hizballah placed roadblocks on all the approaches to the central sector of the South and the entrances to the towns and villages reoccupied by its forces and their rocket units.

These enclaves were declared “closed military zones.”

DEBKAfile’s exclusive military and Western intelligence sources report that neither the Lebanese army which moved south nor the international peacekeepers of UNIFIL venture to set foot in these enclaves. Nor did they raise a finger to block the first broad-daylight consignment of advanced Iranian weapons to be delivered in Lebanon via Syria since the August 14 ceasefire.

Tuesday, Oct. 3, after Hizballah completed its redeployment, the southern commander who orchestrated the rocket bombardment of Israel, Sheikh Nabil Qauq, made his first appearance since the war. He announced that his forces had regrouped, fully armed and in command of rocket supplies, in exactly the same positions facing the Israeli border as they had occupied when they went to war on July 12.

Israel should make clear that any enclave that the UN or Lebanese army will not police is open to attack, without prior warning.

Unfortunately that is hardly enough sN:

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=3324

mrocktor

That’s absolutely outrageous. Another reason why we should withdraw from the UN.

Damn, what would have happened if they had fired? I can think of all sorts of World War scenarios that that could have sparked.