What is the O'ist view on death?

Questions about Objectivism
1

Hello. I hope that you can help me. I’ve read just about everything available from Ayn Rand and Nathaniel Branden, and also Peikoff’s book on objectivism. The bulk of my reading was ten years ago, and I haven’t “kept up” with the latest in objectivism. I’ve always had a question, and it’s even more pertinent to me now - as I explain life and philosophy to my children.

Please let me set up my question: 1) First, I believe that life is great and that, paraphrasing Ayn Rand, death is the end of the world. That is, I have no belief in an afterlife. I also understand that death is what makes life so valuable to us. 2) I have found very little discussion of death in objectivist literature. The most detail that I have found is a chapter entitled ‘Death Anxiety’ in Branden’s ‘Honoring the Self.’ But that’s about it, other than some very brief comments by Rand, including in a response to a teenager in ‘Letters of Ayn Rand’ and also her comments to Tom Snyder.

Now here is my question/comment: 1) Have there been any substantial objectivist writings on death, and if so could you provide references? 2) If not much else has been written…why? We are goal-directed, we seek our happiness, and we engage in long-term planning. Therefore, for many of us, it’s normal to occasionally think of death. And, I don’t want to die. Does anybody? Why has such a huge topic received so little discussion? Please help me reconcile this ultimate “negative” experience with the greatness of life here on earth. I accept death, but I’d like to be able to discuss it in a positive manner, particularly with my children. Maybe I just don’t get it, but this seems like an important topic to be addressed by the philosophy of objectivism. I submit these questions respectfully, and I will greatly appreciate any reply or discussion. Many thanks.

[Note from BurgessLau, moderator: Welcome, Buddy 456. Be sure to read the Forum Rules, especially for Spelling and Grammar. The proper name “Objectivism” is spelled with a capital “O” to recognize Ayn Rand’s achievement; “objectivism,” historically, names only one tenet, not a whole philosophy.]

2

I think the reason that death is an unpopular topic in Objectivist discussion is because it is a negative. Death is a lack of something – life. Death is not the opposite of life in the sense of any characteristic besides the fundamental fact of existence vs. non-existence. For example, love and hate are opposites, because both emotions possess several contradictory elements: admiration vs. loathing, similar values vs. divergent values, etc. You can describe hate without referencing love. You cannot, however, define death without referencing life.

It is because of this that life gets 99% of the attention. All one can really say about death is that it is not life.

Now, matters of grieving, etc., are another matter entirely, and such effects of death aren’t concerned with the above statements.

3

First of all, welcome to the forum :slight_smile: .

Aside from any specific official Objectivist position on death, here is thread on this forum on the subject:

Rejection Of Axioms And Fear Of Death

I found it insightful.

4

Death is a fact. Get over it.

It’s not even one of the scariest facts of life. So life is going to end one day… fine. That means you have to try to finish what you want to do in this world before it happens. Plan ahead.

But to fear death? Why? You’re not even there to suffer. In fact, being dead is less painful than anything else you’ve done in your life. :slight_smile:

5

Death is a fact. Get over it.

It’s not even one of the scariest facts of life. So life is going to end one day… fine. That means you have to try to finish what you want to do in this world before it happens. Plan ahead.

But to fear death? Why? You’re not even there to suffer. In fact, being dead is less painful than anything else you’ve done in your life. :slight_smile:

I agree with this. One’s own death should not be a concern. Death isn’t a problem for the dead, since they’re not around anymore to be concerned about it.

6

I have broken the following long paragraph at the “joints,” for easier discussion:

[…] 1) Have there been any substantial objectivist writings on death, and if so could you provide references?

What do you mean by “[O]bjectivist”? Strictly speaking, the only Objectivist writings were the writings of Ayn Rand, the creator of Objectivism. Perhaps you mean writings by individuals who have adopted her philosophy? Either way, so far as I know, no, no Objectivists have written whole works about death. Why would anyone want to write about nothing?

  1. If not much else has been written…why?

What can anyone say about nothing?

We are goal-directed, we seek our happiness, and we engage in long-term planning. Therefore, for many of us, it’s normal to occasionally think of death. And, I don’t want to die. Does anybody?

Yes, some individuals do. Those who hate life. Those who believe death is a passage to another world.

Why has such a huge topic received so little discussion?

What about nothing would you discuss? What basic principles of nothing would be the foundation?

Please help me reconcile this ultimate “negative” experience with the greatness of life here on earth.

How can one experience nothing?

I accept death, but I’d like to be able to discuss it in a positive manner, particularly with my children.

How can you discuss nothing – positively?

Maybe I just don’t get it, but this seems like an important topic to be addressed by the philosophy of objectivism.

Why would nothing be an important topic for Ayn Rand, the creator of Objectivism?

What do you believe is the purpose of philosophy – particularly the philosophy of Objectivism?

7

I’m not sure whether to post this here or over in the other forum, now. Fooey on you, Bryan. :wink:

If it’s not terribly nosy, Buddy, would you mind giving me some context on this issue? Did you have another belief system before you adopted Objectivism? What was it?

The reason I ask is that I drew some very strong connections between my situation a few years ago and what I suppose to be yours. Most notably, I find the statement

I accept death

very telling. Acceptance (to me) implies a coming-to-terms process, much as one must accept the loss of a limb or a spouse. In Objectivism I think death is more properly dismissed than accepted; it is a metaphysical fact and as such can’t really be evaluated. Edit: as a positive or negative, I mean, you can certainly THINK about it.

I haven’t fully managed this myself. It’s HARD if you’re coming into Objectivism with habits of a desperate yearning for “immortality” of some kind, or, worse, the nihilist construction that life is meaningless because death exists. It can lead to a bizarre feeling of existential dread, made worse by the fact that you’re sure it’s the wrong thing to feel about the issue.

Generally my experience has been that if you’re worrying about death it’s because you’re not happy with your life, and THAT is fixable.

Oh, as for talking about death with your kids, that’s not so bad. Just WAIT UNTIL THEY ASK. When I was a child I had a book given to me by my mother, The Fall of Freddie the Leaf . I was so young when she gave me this book that I didn’t even understand that it was about death until some years later. I can’t complain, in general it was a very benevolent book, but I think too much thought about death when a child is very young can’t possibly be good for them. It distracts from thinking about LIFE which is what they really should be doing.