What Values Do You Live By?

Questions about Objectivism
21

Do you mean philosophical values or personal values?

My highest philosophical values are reason, purpose, and self-esteem.

My highest personal values are my particular beloved work (my central purpose in life), my particular friends, and my particular favorite leisure activity.

What about you?

I would agree with you about the philosophical values. Would you say reason, purpose, and self-esteem are at the top of all Objectivists philosophical hierarchy?

My most important personal values are bodybuilding and baseball, my cat and fish, and possibly most significant(if this is a value), I value my heroes, Ayn Rand and Mike Mentzer.

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Would you say reason, purpose, and self-esteem are at the top of all Objectivists philosophical hierarchy?

What do you mean by “Objectivists[']”?

My most important personal values are bodybuilding and baseball, my cat and fish, and […]

What about your central purpose in life, that is, the work (stated abstractly) that you love to do, as the core of your life, whether it pays or not. Howard Roark’s CPL was designing and building buildings. Ayn Rand’s was portraying the ideal man in fiction. (See The Romantic Manifesto, Ch. 10, and various statements in Jeff Britting’s biography, Ayn Rand.)

[…] possibly most significant (if this is a value), I value my heroes, Ayn Rand and Mike Mentzer.

The word value names a variety of ideas. I think here in your statement a better word would be “respect” or “revere” or “emulate.” You aren’t acting to gain and keep two deceased persons. Having heroes is very important. They give us fuel during bad times. Mine include Ayn Rand, especially in her later years; Thomas Sowell, especially in his teen years; and others.

23

What do you mean by “Objectivists[']”?

What about your central purpose in life, that is, the work (stated abstractly) that you love to do, as the core of your life, whether it pays or not. Howard Roark’s CPL was designing and building buildings. Ayn Rand’s was portraying the ideal man in fiction. (See The Romantic Manifesto, Ch. 10, and various statements in Jeff Britting’s biography, Ayn Rand.)

The word value names a variety of ideas. I think here in your statement a better word would be “respect” or “revere” or “emulate.” You aren’t acting to gain and keep two deceased persons. Having heroes is very important. They give us fuel during bad times. Mine include Ayn Rand, especially in her later years; Thomas Sowell, especially in his teen years; and others.

I think I meant by “Objectivists”, people who do value reason, purpose, and self-esteem, which answers my own question.

After reading a couple chapters in the Romantic Manifesto, and “Productiveness” and “Purpose” in the Lexicon, I think I figured out how bodybuilding and baseball could be my central purposes in life. If my ulimate goal in bodybuilding is to reach my genetic muscular potential(max. muscle mass) and I was very much dedicated and used my ability to reason to strive for that goal, couldnt that be considered one of my central purposes? And for baseball, it would be the same thing expect I would be working to achieve my ulimate goal of reaching the major leagues.

I know I have two central purposes, and that may defeat the point of having a central purpose, but if I’m dedicated to them equally and want to achieve them both the same, couldnt I have two central purposes?

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I know I have two central purposes, and that may defeat the point of having a central purpose, but if I’m dedicated to them equally and want to achieve them both the same, couldnt I have two central purposes?

Ayn Rand pointed out that one’s ultimate purpose in life is happiness. A central purpose in life is a step toward that ultimate purpose. (There is a hierarchy of purposes – from the ultimate purpose right down to the purpose of eating a particular meal.)

In a fully rational person there cannot be two central purposes in life at the same time. If there were, then where would the integration be? What would integrate the two abstract statements of productivity into one? That doesn’t mean you need to abandon one CP; it just means you need to think about what abstract statement integrates them. In other words, where is the “one in the many.” Integration is a sign of successful reasoning. All ideas should be integrated because all facts of reality are connected and our ideas should reflect the facts.

For example, I love reading and telling success stories. I also love studying history. Is there a conflict? There is integration if my CPL is telling success stories drawn from history. That is one CPL integrating two fascinations.

[…] I figured out how bodybuilding and baseball could be my central purposes in life. If my ulimate goal in bodybuilding is to reach my genetic muscular potential(max. muscle mass) and I was very much dedicated and used my ability to reason to strive for that goal, couldnt that be considered one of my central purposes?

No. It could certainly be one of your personal goals, either as a leisure activity (hardwork!) or as a health activity. But, as you have stated it, does it produce anything? Does it in any way pay your way through life? It would if you sold tickets so that people could watch you work out, or if you used your experience to write a book about the subject, or if you taught others, or if you started a chain of fitness centers using your own knowledge and success as a draw.

However, there is a sense in which building onself into a perfect body is a productive activity – in the same sense that painting a painting which never gets shown to anyone else is still a work of art. Perhaps that is what you mean. If so, I would only suggest that a CPL, as an abstract statement, should potentially be applicable to all the rest of one’s life. If that applies to your goal of physical development, then I would say it could be a CPL.

BTW, once you reach your max, what will you do then? Quit? If so, then it shouldn’t be your CPL, because a CPL is an abstraction that can span a lifetime.

And for baseball, it would be the same thing expect I would be working to achieve my ulimate goal of reaching the major leagues.

Baseball is like ballet. You can’t participate forever. At some point, you would have to stop playing. But if you love baseball, you could still write about it, be an announcer, be a coach, start a baseball museum in your home state, or be an owner of a team. They would all fit under your statement of purpose, however you worded it. That is why it is so important to make a CPL an abstract statement. Abstractions cover an enormous range of particulars and concretes. Howard Roark was achieving his CPL whether he was working as a draftsman for someone else or designing a gas station or designing and building a skyscraper while managing a group of draftsmen in his own office.

A CPL is an abstract statement of what you love to do, regardless of what particular form is available to you at a particular time in your life.

P. S. Note that a central purpose in life is just that: central. Central does not mean exclusive. Besides my beloved work, I have other purposes that are crucial to my happiness: my friends and my favorite leisure activities. (Leisure is crucial to happiness because it helps us recover from intense periods of work. And besides, it is pleasure in itself. And friendship is refueling too, as well as a pleasure in itself.)

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BTW, once you reach your max, what will you do then? Quit? If so, then it shouldn’t be your CPL, because a CPL is an abstraction that can span a lifetime.

Baseball is like ballet. You can’t participate forever. At some point, you would have to stop playing. But if you love baseball, you could still write about it, be an announcer, be a coach, start a baseball museum in your home state, or be an owner of a team. They would all fit under your statement of purpose, however you worded it. That is why it is so important to make a CPL an abstract statement. Abstractions cover an enormous range of particulars and concretes. Howard Roark was achieving his CPL whether he was working as a draftsman for someone else or designing a gas station or designing and building a skyscraper while managing a group of draftsmen in his own office.

A CPL is an abstract statement of what you love to do, regardless of what particular form is available to you at a particular time in your life.

I have a problem- a big problem. I cant figure out my central purpose in life. However, I did think about it last night for awhile and I know now that my CPL will have something to do with baseball. But the only aspect of baseball I want to be involved with right now is playing the game. You mentioned a CPL should be applicable throughtout an entire lifetime, though, and I cant play the rest of my life. Would it be a good decision if I made my CPL “to play baseball” for the next 20-30 years of my life, then after I cant play any longer I change my CPL to fit my age better? I’m sure that will be an emphatic no on your part and you will realize its a bad choice, but I cant figure out what else I should do. Also, you said a CPL should always be productive, which of course “playing baseball” isnt exactly unless Im getting paid for it. So I dont know where to go from here.

To answer a different question of yours, when I do reach my genetic muscular potential, the best thing I could do is maintain that muscle mass, which isnt much of a challenge. Also, it only takes a year or two to get to the end point, so Im almost there already.

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I cant figure out my central purpose in life. However, I did think about it last night for awhile […]

I was about 40 when I finally figured mine out. Give yourself plenty of time to find the right formula. In the meantime, practice, train, and play ball. You have a general idea of what you love to do. That is sufficient for now, I would say. (I am assuming that your CPL is objective, that is, meets objective requirements. For example, a CPL should be ambitious but achievable. Creating music probably would not be an objective CPL for a deaf man, for example.)

and I know now that my CPL will have something to do with basebal l. But the only aspect of baseball I want to be involved with right now is playing the game. You mentioned a CPL should be applicable throughtout an entire lifetime, though, and I cant play the rest of my life.

[bold added for emphasis.] Of course, as you know, you will have to come up with the right words yourself. They must come from within your soul, that is, from the set of experiences and insights and values and yearnings that are you.

If I were a ballet dancer, I would start with something crude like “I want to do ballet,” leaving the exact wording for later. “Doing” would include the actual dancing for the forseeable future, but also later teaching or managing and so forth. That is assuming that I truly love ballet and not ONLY dancing itself.

I have met only a few people in sports as professionals. But they all loved the sport as a whole, as well as playing it, in particular. If a man loves basketball, and has to stop playing because he loses both legs in a car accident, he still loves basketball and might rightly seek some other job in the same field just to be near what he loves.

Would it be a good decision if I made my CPL “to play baseball” for the next 20-30 years of my life, then after I cant play any longer I change my CPL to fit my age better?

(1) Do you mean change it radically to something like chemistry or construction? Sure, you could. Some happy people have done just that. They switched from one CPL, after topping it off, to another CPL. I wouldn’t recommend it because what would integrate those two phases? I am not saying having two CPLs in sequence is bad, but rather that I think it may not be optimal. When I look back at my life, at the end, I want to see it as a whole. Howard Roark could do that. So could Ayn Rand.

Keep in mind, also, that a career is not a central purpose in life. A career is a sequence, a ladder, of activities. A CPL is an abstraction subsuming an enormous range of possibilities: the exact activities, the social relations, the pay, the geographic location, the level of mental activity required, and so forth. Ayn Rand’s CPL subsumed screenplays for the stage, screenplays for movies, short stories, novelettes, and novels.

(2) Or do you mean change it to some other form of “doing” baseball? If so, then that would be fine. Both stages would be subsumed by the same abstract CPL statement.

[…] a CPL should always be productive, which of course “playing baseball” isnt exactly unless Im getting paid for it.

Why wouldn’t it be monetarily rewarding if you are dedicated, physically suited, and persistent? You might have to take a second job, but so what?

Imagine being a poet. They don’t get paid much, generally. So, a poet might have to work in a warehouse a few days a week so he can read and write poetry on his own. What matters is love. Taking a “day job” to pay the bills and finance love is fine.

To answer a different question of yours, when I do reach my genetic muscular potential, the best thing I could do is maintain that muscle mass, which isnt much of a challenge. Also, it only takes a year or two to get to the end point, so Im almost there already.

Good clarification. So, it isn’t a lifetime goal for you. It is only a short-term goal, or perhaps a means to an end. Then you are right to not consider it a CPL.

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It makes a huge difference now that I have distinguished my CPL. I have a clear and strong grasp of what Im striving after and I know that I have a purpose to my life. Once a CPL is established, it is much easier to stay focused and motivated because one knows that he needs to be productive to improve on his CPL.

Thanks for the sound advice, BL.

28

Interesting.

Has anyone else given thought to what their central purpose in life is?

29

If someone values the tv show Seinfeld (for example), how does that fit into the definition of value? He acts to gain and/or keep the show Seinfeld. That doesnt seem to make sense to me.

Or another example is: he acts to gain and/or keep the game of baseball(if he likes to play baseball). What are you gaining or keeping?

30

I think you guys accidentally skipped my question. Or am I being blackballed?

31

If someone values the tv show Seinfeld (for example), how does that fit into the definition of value? He acts to gain and/or keep the show Seinfeld. That doesnt seem to make sense to me.

Or another example is: he acts to gain and/or keep the game of baseball(if he likes to play baseball). What are you gaining or keeping?

One gains the value of a TV show by viewing it, buying the DVD and so on. Similar for a game: you go see the game, or watch it on TV or read about it. In essence, if you act.

In general terms, if you act in some way, with the intent of acheiving an outcome, chances are that you value that outcome.

32

One gains the value of a TV show by viewing it, buying the DVD and so on. Similar for a game: you go see the game, or watch it on TV or read about it. In essence, if you act.

In general terms, if you act in some way, with the intent of acheiving an outcome, chances are that you value that outcome.

Would it be more accurate if you said, “He acts to gain and/or keep the value of the tv show.”? Should you add the word value into that sentence?

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Would it be more accurate if you said, “He acts to gain and/or keep the value of the tv show.”? Should you add the word value into that sentence?

It’s kind of redundant. What is the purpose of this question? Why does it matter that, in American English, we don’t say “he acted to gain the television show”, we say “he watched the television show”. It’s like in French, they don’t say “how’s it going?” but “How do you go?” It means the same thing, in context.

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Has anyone else given thought to what their central purpose in life is?

You know, the more often I think about this, the less I like it; put this way it sounds more like some sort of predestination, where you have to discover what you are supposed to do rather than choose what you want to do.

I admit it can sometimes be difficult to figure out what you want to do, but this is theoretically the result of psychological problems (repression) rather than something that should be expected! When people ask me where I’d like to be in fifteen years, I usually put the question off because it’s personal, but I know the answer. Or is that unusual?

35

Usual? I’d say yes and no.

I think almost everyone has some idea of what they want to be/do, but few people (particularly our age) have a perfected vision of what they want to be. My purpose today is more refined than 5 years ago, diverges considerably from a decade ago, and I greatly value some things that I have yet to fully integrate as a part of a central purpose.

Dagny’s a good example of this, and I wouldn’t characterize her difficulty as the result of psychological problems. She originally acted with a purpose of making TT flourish, and didn’t realize how this could be (and was) contradictory to her more fundamental purposes. Once she realized (discovered?) the relationship between maintaining TT and attaining her other goals, then she could choose which actions best fulfilled her purpose.

Would it be more accurate if you said, “He acts to gain and/or keep the value of the tv show.”? Should you add the word value into that sentence?

Technically, it’d probably be most accurate to say that you value watching the TV show.

36

It makes a huge difference now that I have distinguished my CPL. I have a clear and strong grasp of what Im striving after and I know that I have a purpose to my life. Once a CPL is established, it is much easier to stay focused and motivated because one knows that he needs to be productive to improve on his CPL.

You should consider the difference between your purpose in life and your career. Your purpose in life is broad: to pursue your own happiness. Your career is narrow. It’s one of many ways of pursuing your happiness.

If you think that you can only pursue happiness by being a professional baseball player, then I suggest that you pour every ounce of energy you have into that endeavor. Otherwise, start considering other career options, because, as you already know, it takes exceptional skill to make it in the major leagues. I wouldn’t count on that for a career, if I were you. Even if I were a great athlete and had a really good chance of becoming a ballplayer, I’d still have a back-up plan. I’d search for other careers in which I might be happy.