jimmyg12 Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 So we have a dozen or so official candidates for president in 2008 from the Dems and the Reps. Any opinions on who (if anyone) might be worthy of support from an Objectivist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 I don't know that any of them are worthy of support, but some are less worthy of condemnation than others. I will end up voting for whoever isn't Hillary Clinton, unless that person happens to be John McCain. If the choice is between McCain and Hillary, I'm moving to North Korea where my rights will be at least somewhat protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsponge Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Ron Paul looks very promising. http://www.house.gov/paul/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogito Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Ron Paul looks very promising. http://www.house.gov/paul/ His stances look very promising... What about his chances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 If the choice is between McCain and Hillary, I'm moving to North Korea where my rights will be at least somewhat protected. That's about what I'm thinking right now, as well. My last recommendation was to vote for gridlock, and it will probably be my next, as well. Vote for the one who is more openly crazy, so that the rest of washington will more likely block their nonsense. Between McCain and Hillary, that is Hillary but I want to vomit just thinking about voting for her. I hate her so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Of those currently in the field, Mitt Romney is the best by far. When I vetoed $458 million of excessive spending in the budget this spring, I knew that community newspapers across the Commonwealth would decry my elimination of local pet projects. And, I knew that the Legislature would over ride most of my vetoes. In fact, they over rode all of them, to a chorus of community acclaim. But someone has to say no. http://www.mittromney.com/Issue-Watch/Stop...unaway_Spending Someone who knows the "community" will hate him for doing the right thing, but does it nonetheless, and is proud of having done it--this is the kind of statesman America sorely needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 While both Ron Paul and Mitt Romney sound like people I might actually enjoy voting for, let's be honest. When you talk about the '08 election, you talk about whether it will be McCain or Giuliani running against Hillary Clinton. Those are the only 2 viable Republicans, and I just don't give Obama much of a chance at beating Hillary. The only one of the the Big Three that I could even consider voting for in a general election would be Giuliani. He has his flaws, but they are greatly outweighed by the flaws of Hillary. And he has the additional advantage of not being a member of the religious right. McCain and Hillary's flaws balance each other out. Both are dishonest, fascist, and opportunistic. I know of no reason to vote for one over the other. I don't think Giuliani's support for gun control can possibly outweigh the flat-out evil positions of Hillary Clinton. In short, if Giuliani is nominated, I vote for him. If McCain is nominated, I write in a vote for Thomas Sowell. Additionally, I'm considering registering as a Democrat, just so I can have the pleasure of voting against Hillary twice. That's about what I'm thinking right now, as well. My last recommendation was to vote for gridlock, and it will probably be my next, as well. Vote for the one who is more openly crazy, so that the rest of washington will more likely block their nonsense. Between McCain and Hillary, that is Hillary but I want to vomit just thinking about voting for her. I hate her so much! If your goal is to instill gridlock, then you vote for the candidate who's party you think will have a minority. Unless Republicans can pull a miracle out of their ass (presumably one performed by Jesus), then they will still be in the minority after the '08 election. That's another reason a Hillary presidency scares me to death. After 4 years of her in the White House, the Republicans will suddenly be voted into about 99% of all public offices in the country. While I generally prefer Republicans to Democrats, I prefer it in the sense that I'd want it to be 51% to 49%. Anything more than that scares me, and a Hillary presidency is the best gift that anyone could give to the Republican party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWaters Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 His stances look very promising... What about his chances? Ron Paul is more of a sideshow for the Republican Party, analogous to how Dennis Kucinich is (thankfully!) more of a sideshow for the Democratic Party. Both have an infintesimal chance of actually winning each respective nomination. If the choice is between McCain and Hillary, I'm moving to North Korea where my rights will be at least somewhat protected. That's about what I'm thinking right now, as well. Given that there is unfortunately a pretty good chance of this, I will make an effort to remind you guys of your facetitious pledge to relocate to the worst place on the planet. Of all of the serious Democratic candidates, New Mexican Governor Bill Richardson seems to be the best that they can do at present. He does not have goofy religious views, he would probably be competent on foreign policy, he has a sensible and comprehensive plan for immigration, he is pro-nuclear power and he generally supports tax cuts. I will be doing more research into him. Senator Joe Biden also appears to be pretty decent. Mitt Romney is unfortunately pandering to the religious right now. Otherwise he sounds pretty good from what little that I know. With regards to securing the Republican nomination, I dread that Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee will vacuum up all of the religious and neo-conservative support and will make a strong campaign to continue the policies of the current administration. Not only is he a WASP but he also was governor and therefore has no record of voting for the War in Iraq. These two tidbits will probably secure at least 45% of the American Public votes. The other prominent Republican candidates are pretty easy to slander to fool the average voting American who pays little attention to politics and has a poor recollection of history: John McCain: too old. Rudy Giuliani: There are pictures of him dressed like a woman on the internet. Mitt Romney: He is Mormon. He will inevitably get associated with the scandals from the Mormon Church. Sam Brownback: Too overtly fundamentalist. He also voted for the War in Iraq. Time for me to depart now. I will add to this later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Rudy Giuliani: There are pictures of him dressed like a woman on the internet. If only the internet had been around in the days of J. Edgar Hoover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonsays Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Just to spoil the party a bit, but for those people who are thinking about voting republican in the next election, then you guys need to reexamine your understanding of the practical role of philosophy in man’s actual life. Socialism is dead, religion is more of a threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 That topic has been discussed to the point of exhaustion...and this isn't the thread for it. Even so, the only Republican I have suggested voting for is Guiliani. He's no religious conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aequalsa Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Hillary? I don't think I can do it. Even against a religious conservative, I don't think I could. I find her violently repulsive. She is the definition of power luster for me. And the worst part is, there will be all this build up of excitement in the press and polls and on election day cause she "might be the first woman president" while everybody loses sight of the fact that she's a friggin communist. A lot of women who don't vote will probably be inspired to inspite of her particular beliefs and I somehow doubt the same reaction will occur with the huge misoginistic man coalition. Gawd...I think she is going to be it...feeling ill already...I am going to go pray to the religious conservative god to empower his people and let the fundmentalist win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Neither McCain nor Guiliani are what I would call religious fundamentalists. But McCain is a poor choice for other reasons. As for Hillary...I fully agree with your assessment of her. I also think that a Hillary candidacy is going to do more to fire up the Republican base than anything else short of Reagan's reanimated corpse entering the race. There is no way Hillary can win the real election. If it's between her and McCain, McCain wins easily. If it's between her and Guiliani, it will be tighter, because Guiliani does not pander to Ted Haggard and his ilk...but he still wins. Something like 45% of people polled have stated that they would not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. I don't see how you can win with that percentage, assuming that the poll is anywhere close to being accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aequalsa Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Neither McCain nor Guiliani are what I would call religious fundamentalists. But McCain is a poor choice for other reasons. As for Hillary...I fully agree with your assessment of her. I also think that a Hillary candidacy is going to do more to fire up the Republican base than anything else short of Reagan's reanimated corpse entering the race. There is no way Hillary can win the real election. If it's between her and McCain, McCain wins easily. If it's between her and Guiliani, it will be tighter, because Guiliani does not pander to Ted Haggard and his ilk...but he still wins. Something like 45% of people polled have stated that they would not vote for Hillary under any circumstances. I don't see how you can win with that percentage, assuming that the poll is anywhere close to being accurate. I very much hope you are right, but with what, ?40%? voting in most presidential elections people win with the support of 20.5% of the registered voters. That other 60% could do a lot of damage one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Well, I'm sure that was amongst people who were planning to vote. Even so, with a figure as controversial as Hillary running, this is likely to be the highest turnout in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aequalsa Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Well, I'm sure that was amongst people who were planning to vote. Even so, with a figure as controversial as Hillary running, this is likely to be the highest turnout in history. Need to call out the he-man woman hater vote. Where ar those guys hiding these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 From what I hear, the California governor's mansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aequalsa Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 From what I hear, the California governor's mansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Ron Paul He's a libertarian anti-Semite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aequalsa Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 He's a libertarian anti-Semite. Still, by comparison to Mrs. Toohey...err...Mrs.Clinton? The climate of the US is not antisemitic enough that I would worry about the institution of concentration camps with Ron Paul while the climate of the US is socialist enough that I would worry about the socialization of medicine. By the way, I had not heard that about him. Do you have a reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 let's be honest. When you talk about the '08 election, you talk about whether it will be McCain or Giuliani running against Hillary Clinton. Those are the only 2 viable Republicans Why do you think so? I would suppose that in order to win the Republican nomination, you need the support of conservative voters in the primaries. Neither McCain nor Giuliani will have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWaters Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Neither McCain nor Guiliani are what I would call religious fundamentalists. But McCain is a poor choice for other reasons. John McCain is not a religious fundamentalist but religion certainly is an influence in some his decision making. Here are some examples: He is in favor of teaching creationism in public schools. He is against abortion in all cases but the common exceptions: rape, incest and if the mother's life is in danger. He is against gay marriages (but at least is opposed to banning them with a constitutional amendment.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wrath Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 (edited) Why do you think so? I would suppose that in order to win the Republican nomination, you need the support of conservative voters in the primaries. Neither McCain nor Giuliani will have it. How can you think conservative voters will not vote to nominate McCain? True, he is more prone to compromise with Democrats than the typical Republican is, but he still falls squarely in the conservative camp. Guiliani is questionable, because he is socially liberal...that's the main reason why I fear that the election will end up being between McCain and Hillary and, thus, not leaving me a decent option to vote for. Mitt Romney's campaign will go nowhere, because he is a Mormon. Ron Paul's will go nowhere because no one has ever heard of him. Name recognition is a huge factor. In elections where there are a bunch of relatively unknowns running (i.e. '04 Democratic primaries), that isn't such a big deal. But there are 2 nationally knowns superstars running for the Republican nomination, who will dwarf any potential rivals. John McCain is not a religious fundamentalist but religion certainly is an influence in some his decision making. Here are some examples: He is in favor of teaching creationism in public schools. He is against abortion in all cases but the common exceptions: rape, incest and if the mother's life is in danger. He is against gay marriages (but at least is opposed to banning them with a constitutional amendment.) I actually didn't know that about creationism...but the other 2 are pretty much standard for anyone who calls himself a Republican. Religion may shape some of his views, but not nearly to the same extent as it does with Bush. However, I think that McCain would do far more damage to this country than Bush has, for a host of other reasons that are unrelated to religion. So, when I say that he isn't a religious nutjob, don't take that as a defense. The last thing I want to do is defend John McCain. Edited February 11, 2007 by Moose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Do you have a reference? As for his association with the Libertarian Party, see his biography. As for anti-Semitism--well, for starters, he was the only Republican to vote against the House resolution supporting Israel's right to self-defense in the conflict with Lebanon. If you read his comments on Israel in his various speeches and articles (such as this one), you won't find it difficult to spot a pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aequalsa Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 As for his association with the Libertarian Party, see his biography. As for anti-Semitism--well, for starters, he was the only Republican to vote against the House resolution supporting Israel's right to self-defense in the conflict with Lebanon. If you read his comments on Israel in his various speeches and articles (such as this one), you won't find it difficult to spot a pattern. I don't doubt the libertarianism, but the anti-semetic charge seems unfounded. Him being unwilling to support the state of Isreal with US tax dollars does not equate to anti-semitism. I have been looking online and nothing I have read by him so far strikes me as antisemtic. He is a libertarian and isolationist no doubt, but I think calling him anti-semetic is unfair. If you know of some Mel Gibsonlike, "I hate jews" rampage, let me know, but that article doesn't qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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