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The point about CNN being, even they occasionally can "get it right". As can RT, etc. I mentioned that already, about sifting the news. Some or many facts they report will indeed by necessity be valid. And even, if very seldom, is their editorializing sometimes worthy. Or they inadvertently may expose some truths, unknowingly. I hardly watch CNN any longer, they are so predictably hateful of good American values. Less reporting of the news than consciously moulding their public audience into one world view. Less journalists now, but ideologues. The great pity is CNN became the dominant US broadcaster overseas, accepted unthinkingly by many as "the Voice of America" while subtlely (or crudely) misrepresenting America and the great majority of Americans. That's how dirty ideologies have spread.

Would appear you are correct there, Jon. Really, one has to go through plenty of nit-picking obstacles to communicate any idea. Each concept has to be justified from the ground up, and then still ignored. The aim seems to be to weary the few who haven't automatically accepted the over-riding, emotionalist narrative and shut them down. I need to explain altruism! Outside commentators are needed to point to the glaring, western self-sacrifices! Not (just) that reality has been squeezed to fit O'ist principles, but base moral principles like the nations' self-interest v. altruism are not applied.

Your particular blind spot is 'revealed knowledge'. Intrinsicism. We've been here before. The 'book cover' tells you all you want to know. Truth-value is revealed by the outer image, why think further. When the opining of Americans and a Frenchman (not Russians) is broadcast [on RT] switch off your thought, don't bother to look further; it's obviously indoctrination. If written in the NYT - okay then. Their opinions, in brief: how the West has abandoned self-interest in its frenzy to accomodate Ukraine - and defeat, punish, weaken etc., Russia. Self-evident, one would think. Many Objectivists could recognize the altruist self-sacrifice the West is wallowing in. But not you.

Perhaps but not by any appreciable magnitude.

But the Russian Federation deserves a bigger fuck than the other 2 combined.

How stupid do you have to be to talk against propaganda of all kinds, but then literally promote propaganda? It would be like you unironically posting CNN links. Could you post some evidence then? Nevermind, it doesn't matter, q-leivers can't be reasoned with, because any such person is trapped inside a cult. Not figuratively, I mean a literal cult. Share some. You should know that "look it up" doesn't work, Google searches are tailored towards individuals, so we will literally get different information. As much as I get combative with you, I trust you to provide something better. JL certainly won't. I can't get into Donbas, I didn't research it extensively, and like most countries involved with geopolitical things, there is probably a prior act of aggression by Russia, then back and forth until the beginning of Russian history. RT is about as helpful as Chinese media talking about Tiananmen Square. As in, not at all, and would as a matter of routine deny any negative implication as either nonexistent or as actually an act of self-defense.

@EC I've picked a few to watch. Right now, Silent Witness, before that Murder, She Wrote. By and large it's an episode or two for an evening, depending on the length of the show.

You've missed a LOT of really good shows over the last decade and a half then. TV turned awesome after the 90's especially after about '05 or so.

Fascinating discussion (interviewing Westerners) on the RT show Crosstalk. A chance to hear views CNN won't air. The theme is altruism, not explicitly worded but which anyone here will recognize. The West is surrendering a greater value(s) for a lesser...etc. https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/555767-west-russia-sanctions-isolation/

And we haven't even addressed the viral labs there and regular mysterious releases the Russians got tired of. How long would Americans tolerate Russian viral research labs on our border with Mexico? How long would we tolerate being murdered by Nazi brigades stationed in Mexico, introduced by Russia? How long would we tolerate plans to make Mexico a full-blown Warsaw Pact (analogous) country, loaded up with weapons aimed at us and our cities? Don't forget the Mexican coup against its democratically elected government in 2014, plus shelling Americans, killing us in the many thousands. Year after year after year. We would fix all of that immediately and have every right to do so. And the guilt for every Mexican death would be on Russia and the Mexican leaders who got their country in bed with Russia against us.

Putin had every right to go into Ukraine as we had every right to go into Cuba once they allowed their island to become a pitching mound for lobbing nukes at Americans. Not one of you Ukraine-is-a-virgin brainwash victims in willing to engage in good faith with the facts about what the Ukrainian government did to the Donbass after the coup in 2014. That means you are merely going through the motions of a discussion. See, we engage with everything you present to us while you evade everything we say that CNN isn't also saying. Literal evasion — you refuse to look at it.

Quite so. You listen to someone and look at their actions, from the composite one may begin to build up what their convictions and character are. This is still in flux, who knows what Putin says/does next?

One thing common to both the G.W. Bush and Putin aggressions was that they first amassed their armed forces obviously near the borders of the target country. In the Bush case, it surely seemed from here that there were two reasons: (i) to intimidate Sadaam into allowing nuclear inspectors in with full access to any site the outside inspectors requested and (ii) to suck Sadaam's forces into striking US forces first, thereby relieving Bush of being plainly the aggressor. Saddam caved on full inspections, but contrary his prior demand for that, Bush did not sieze the peaceful and nuclear-safety handle, but instead invaded, after failing to draw the Iraqi forces into attacking American forces first. His advisors had been aiming to topple Saddam all along, and one of the reasons was because of his percieved threat to Israel (and his being idolized by Palestinian youth.) Advisors to G.W.'s father in the Gulf War had advised leaving Saddam on the throne to bar a Persian sweep to the Mediterranean. To the mind of G.W.'s wife, the US invasion had won a humanitarian cause. She remarked in an interview (in sweet-voiced vicious sarcasm): "I can't imagine why they (25% of Americans from the start) oppose this war unless they support Saddam (who had gassed segments of his own population, etc.)" My picture of Putin's invasion and likely real motives (likely with overdetermination of reasons, of course, and likely some lies, of course) are more foggy. But I wouldn't be surprised but what amassing his army near the border also served to give a chance for Ukraine troops to strike first, but also, get some sort of concessions from Ukraine without having to carry out the conquest (Hitler succeeded like that in Austria). (This is distracting me from work too much. I'm going to leave off here. Best wishes, all.)

No one can say what Putin believes , as we can not say what someone believes unless they tell us and even then a question of veracity can still linger. I’d wager Putin/Russia’s motivations for the current military aggression is aligned with their strategic and tactical territorial control. My feelings about Putin’s internal motivations tend toward a strong nationalism , but that this may not extend to a sincere desire to ensure every single ethnic Russian actually enjoys whatever rights or privileges that may entail. I have the sense that in his calculations some of ‘them’ are expendable for a broader cause. Just like Bush and his cronies and all such hawkish, neocon types. And I further assume both such groups have little regard for the civilian populations subject to their actions , unless somehow that a seeming regard can be used to their benefit. As an American , I say fuck the Ukraine government and fuck the Russian government, and fuck Bush and any American regime that would perpetrate situations a la the invasion of Iraq. To me it seems like deja vu all over again , we the US armed al Queda in Afghanistan to out the Ruskies and now in Ukraine we have a strengthened 2.0 version incorporating a color revolution , intensified arms and training support and for whatever reason have let this escalate to open conversations of nuclear exchange. Wtf

The matter of preemptive aggression, for conventional** warfare, seems to me necessary, moral and practical. When made by a moral nation. A mounting attack on one's country is *visible* and predictable, Intel can confirm such; especially where distances and response times are short (as with countries close by, in e.g. Europe) an armed force must meet them early and first, striking before they enter one's territory and cause casualties and weaken one's forces. Particularly Israel comes to mind. Its first strikes against several gathering armies was what saved it in 1973. Soon, the IDF will have to decide when -and in what manner - to preemptively hit Iran... The argument will spring up, who decides who's "moral". That's a tricky one. But non-initiation of force shouldn't be a passive wait for the enemy's first strike, I believe. **as weaponry advances in deadliness and range, hard to define what is conventional any more

I did then Stephen, instinctively, you might say, but was eventually taken in by the (false) justifications of Blair and Bush. I do now, and have said so. This invasion, in isolation from the rest of the context, is an egregious aggression. There is a difference between them. Again - from Putin's viewpoint, he certainly seems to believe his "special military operation" was a rescue mission. A "liberation". That a considerable attack was mounting on the oblasts, as he claimed, was true.

"A mostly peaceful neighbor"!! Not if you lived in the Donbass since '14. Most weird. Over 10,000 Russian-Ukrainian deaths are forgettable or justified but Ukrainian deaths are evil. Premises to check. I have related how the aggression and killing began EARLIER - committed by a government - and you refuse to countenance that. Look it up, bud. I'm funny this way, sickened by all violence and destruction (for any reason) in theory and gut level, and maybe too because I've seen "action" and corpses. A peacenik - distinct from a pacifist - that's me. (The "mass murder" of civilians stands recently at 3778 in Ukraine. In dark humor I say sometimes the Russian Army is very bad at it). If there will be an impartial enquiry into this war you are going to hear of atrocities by Ukrainians also. Some 'unofficial' reports have already slipped out I believe. So let's return to reality and leave out the rationalism.

Tony, do you condemn Bush's aggression in Iraq? Do you see that it was an aggression and that a preemptive invasion is an aggression? Do you see that the fact that Sadaam had aggressed against Iraq's own peoples does not make Bush's invasion, however benevolent, into not an aggression? Do you condemn Putin's invasion as an aggression?

Okay it's time to stop feeding all the moral relativism trolls who don't even believe pride and possessing principles are fundamental moral virtues

These "Objectivists" are committed to the opposite. Steadfast evasion as a matter of principle and pride. They will never meet you in good faith.

So, Putin having a non MSM "point of view" makes it okay to start a war of aggression on a mostly peaceful neighbor and destroy it's cities, murder and rape it's people and leave them dead in the streets or stuff them in mass graves? Now he must also be given things via "negotiations" for doing all these things that you won't declare as evil because he had "reasons"!? Also, the world has no right to defend itself because of these propaganda excuses because you are too much of a pussy to die potentially die for freedom in a nuclear war? All evil regimes including the Nazi's in WW2 have these propaganda based excuses to justify their aggression and mass murder, knowing they exist doesn't magically transform morality from black-and-white to whatever form of relativistic grey like you and others here are attempting. Now, I'm interested in the actual reason all of you are doing this... I want to believe it's just fear that would cause people to defend evil but I'm truly not sure atm

Four Kid-Related Things... ... Which Are Also Four Random Wins From the Positive Focus Logs *** 1. My son, who is almost nine, has been a picky eater all his life. Although he is branching out, albeit very slowly, having takeout at home used to present a conundrum for us: Let him pick the restaurant at the risk of boring the rest of us -- or not, with him having to eat his usual default sandwich or something he's not really going to enjoy? That's suboptimal on the evening, and neither is any good long-term -- either for encouraging him to branch out or for helping him learn to deal with having a limited palate, if that's what the future holds for him. One day, I was going to have to run a couple of small errands on the way to picking up Mexican. Realizing that Panera, a place he likes, was basically on the way, I realized we could order him something for me to pick up on the way home. The timing worked out very well, too, so we now have good a way for him to get something he likes on dine-out night when he doesn't like the place the rest of us want. Aerial view of Vilano Beach, northeast of St. Augustine. (Image by Lance Asper, via Unsplash, license.)2. Because my wife had work obligations that evening, I recently got to accompany my daughter, who is ten now, on a harbor cruise with her girl scout troop. Setting aside some fortunately brief green propaganda by the tour guide, it was a fun experience. The cruise, in Matanzas Bay, was part history lesson about the oldest city in America and part wildlife-spotting, with dolphins being the highlight. The bay -- whose modern Spanish name refers to a religiously-motivated slaughter of French settlers by the Spanish -- happily lived up to its original French name, which meant River of Dolphins. Travel Tip for Locals: We live near Jacksonville, but took State Route A1A between Ponte Vedra Beach and St. Augustine. This was scenic and probably also less stressful than I-95 or Phillips Highway would have been during rush hour. 3. Although I love soccer, it has not caught on with my son, and after he completed his season, we agreed to give him a break from it, to try other sports. (He doesn't seem to care for sports played with balls in general.) The silver lining, as I learned from the mother of the most talented player on the team, is that we won't have all the expenses associated with him being on a traveling team. I'm not giving up hope that we can someday bond over soccer -- I didn't start playing until I was about twelve. -- but you can't force something like that, and I'm backing off. 4. My daughter, taking a cue from me using Alexa as a cooking timer, has really taken to timers and alarms. This I learned one morning during writing time, when I heard her alarm going off at 6:00 a.m. She enjoys anime, and likes to watch a bit before getting ready for school, prompted by another alarm. If her food is too hot for her at home, she sometimes sets a five-minute timer to let it cool off. She is also pretty organized for someone her age: I have not had to prompt her to do homework, even for longer-range projects a single time this school year. She just does it. -- CAVLink to Original

You presume too much. No. 1: The war did not start with an invasion. It's a matter of record - not from "state run" media but many reliable sources if you care to dig- that a democratically elected Govt. was overthrown in Ukraine involving violence. First aggressive act. That there was indeed repression, socially, culturally and politically of Russian speakers. (As a friend who'd lived there recounted, the perceptions in the EU-turning West was of "the second-class citizens"- Old World peasants). Then a long conflict began in the East by Gov. forces against the attempt at autonomy or break away, of the regions from said repressive regime. Shelling of and incursions into Donbass towns and villages, at fellow citizens, it has to be reminded. Next clear initiation of force. This was a primarily a ~demographic~ 'problem' that we encounter everywhere in this collectivist time. In between doubtless there were minor provocations, atrocities and injustices committed by both, one Kyiv backed, using the infamous Russian-loathing, neo-Nazi Azov regiment; and the other "Moscow-backed". (Countless precedents exist of nations defending, arming, utilizing and generally supporting citizenry, dissidents, etc. in another country against a perceived common foe). And then the Mink accords weren't implemented, again doubtlessly due to minor infractions by both parties -- but officially the responsibility of the sitting Govt. to implement - not by the rebels. Those were called "terrorists" by this president Zelensky. This adds up to a chain of initiated force begun with the first cause, a rash, antidemocratic revolution in an originally young, hopeful nation that set the wheels in motion for the result, a compromised and flawed democracy more familiar to many African countries. (Not to add, of a succession of corrupt governments)So from another perspective, in Putin's perception, he likely saw himself as 'coming to the rescue' of a repressed minority trapped over the Russian border who had suffered injustices, due to identifying more-closely with Russia - who were shortly about to be attacked this year by superior forces supplied and trained by NATO, and probably would be annihilated. From "his point of view", I stress, his 'rescue mission' was a humanitarian, preemptive and defensive action, continuing and escalating from the civil war. I condemn it. However if one doesn't independently try to seek out the truths in the complexity and acknowledge the real facts and events, and generally deduce the value-judgments with the view to accurate moral justice and injustices, because one's authority the msm is slow to reveal them, one is superfluous to this debate.

Not sustainable indefinitely, of course. But probably sustainable enough for at least one more destructive war. Does anyone really know what's in Putin's mind?

<Sigh!> So why are you "engaging" with "so many more here" that "can't really be engaged with?" I abandoned television back in 1995. For all intents and purposes, I do get the gist of my current events from "random" web sites. If you've more pertinent information: provide it by breaking the abstractions down and showing how they are derived from the precepts from which the more pertinent abstractions were drawn from. If you can't do this, then I would suggest that it is not a case of the audience that is incapable of understanding, but of a "wanna-be-'preacher' " that is incapable of making its message clear.