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Most Pro-liberty Force Prior To Renaissance

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Most Pro-Liberty Force Prior to Renaissance?  

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  1. 1. Most Pro-Liberty Force Prior to Renaissance?

    • Athens
      14
    • Alexanders Empire
      0
    • Roman Empire
      0
    • Carthaginians
      0


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I am unsure about the question. For example, what do you mean by "force"? Do you mean a socio-political movement -- here one consciously working toward more liberty?

What does "liberty" mean?

I am also confused by the choices offered: a city (which had a 1000 year history in the ancient world), two empires (the long enduring Roman -- but why not name the Republic? -- and the very brief Alexandrian), and a culture (the Carthaginians).

Clarifications would help.

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This set of alternatives misses one of the most obvious choices, and instead substitutes the Roman EMPIRE?!

I think the Roman REPUBLIC was one of the most underrated influences in support of individual rights in Western Civilization.

My own personal test for when modern civilization will be making a turn for the better is when intellectuals lose their infatuation with Julius Caesar, and all the despotism that he represents, and realize that Brutus was the hero of that episode! Rather than Caesar being the politician to emulate, one of the greatest exponents of individual liberty in the ancient world was Cicero, who egged Brutus on to assassinate Caesar before Caesar could completely wiped out the last vestige of republican liberty in Rome.

It's no accident that George Washington looked to the play Cato for inspiration during the Revolution. I'm no expert on Latin or Republican history, but two thousand years later you can still evaluate where someone stands if they condemn Brutus's and Cicero's actions in trying to save the Republic, and extol the virtues of Caesar's rise to power.

In short, the EMPIRE was the degradation of all that Roman Republican liberty had built; the REPUBLIC is what the founding fathers looked to for inspiration -- especially that period of the last years of the Republic when Cicero, Brutus, Cato, et al. fought against the coming empire. It's a very obvious analogy to compare the Roman Republic of 50 BC to the United States today. For anyone interested in reading up on that period, Cicero's "Philipics" series of political speeches against Mark Antony remain perhaps the best series of ancient political speechs arguing for limited government and resistance to despotism.

Thanks to the original poster for the opportunity to vent on this point!

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"Liberty= Founding Fathers Definition"

When you say "Founding Fathers" are you referring to the founders of the U. S. republic? Keep in mind that objectivismonline is an international forum. "Founders" may not mean the same thing to Canadians, Turks, and Israelis.

Further, just what was the Founding Fathers' definition of liberty -- by genus and differentia, if possible? Did all the founders agree on the same definition?

Thank you for your original question. It seems straight-forward at first, but it is the kind of delightful question that can prompt wide-ranging discussions.

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Thanks to the original poster for the opportunity to vent on this point!
No problem;)

Also by Founding Fathers I mean the American founding fathers. The idea of what liberty was, was very similar among almost all of the founding fathers. That is the freedom to do as you please without violating the rights of others.

This set of alternatives misses one of the most obvious choices, and instead substitutes the Roman EMPIRE?!

I would change it if the edit button was still there.

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