Getting Back to the Old Days

I’ve been really invested in the show Vikings lately, and one of the intellectually rewarding things I’ve gotten from it is the opportunity to focus on the actions of characters who are extremely selfishly motivated. The fact that the show digs hard into the characters’ religious grounding allows it to demonstrate what it looks like for individuals to act with a certain metaphysical conviction rather than simply out of “practicality”. Obviously, the religious conviction also manifests as thoughtless brutality, but the show does well to stage it as a foregone conclusion and therefore to make the audience forget all about the baseness of violent conquest. With that detail out of sight and mind, it’s easy to focus on the fact that the Vikings were not fundamentally self-loathing in their philosophy, in contrast to their Christian opponents, who preach self-immolation (although they ironically manage to practice it less consistently than the Vikings do).

Anyways, I had a realization today about the gross contradiction that results from repressing one’s selfish “impulses” _as a means _of self-preservation. What happens when a child is made to believe that, contrary to the basic facts of his daily life - the value of health, security, patience, learning, focus (put another way, the possibility of value as such) - he is expected to act in total disregard of his own well-being? I remember, for most of my childhood, having a vague sense that selfishness was still the end of the ethics I was slowly taught to adopt (emphasis on “adopt” - it was so transparent as to go unnoticed that this ethics was not of my own making).

Forget the Christian (Catholic) milieu altogether - it was hardly necessary at this stage. The mental gymnastics involved were enough to create a young mystic.

Fast forward two decades and change, and I can see no other possibility than psychological egoism. To a degree, I still subscribe. I believe there is something - not self-preservation, surely, nor something as simple physical pleasure either - that everyone inevitably seeks: some kind of peace of mind, maybe in the form of moralism, maybe in the form of power. But in everyone I knew, down to the most pathetic, there was some kind of wanting. Yet at the back of my mind for my whole life lived this belief that it was happiness - or serenity, at least - that mattered most.

Rewind to the early days: How does one reconcile one’s adopted ethics with the ups and downs of life? Rationalism, surely. At least, that was the case for me. The truth, for which I retained a strained reverence (you might see here where the religious fox gets into the psychological garden), was not being given the respect it deserved by reality, or if I introspect, others. Here was the seat of all evil: other people. On the one side there was consciousness (my own), and on the other, society. And society was winning. How did I know they were winning? I didn’t - it was assumed. As far as I knew, other people were what kept me alive. The gods set the terms, and in total disregard of reality. What could I do?

Well, I could lie. I could steal, cheat, manipulate. Or I could dominate. I could win or intimidate or shove. I’m grateful both that I wasn’t uniquely talented at anything and that I’ve always had a distaste for dishonesty, or I might have been more prolific in both arenas. But the frustration was there regardless: the envy, the impatience, the rage, and eventually hopelessness, fear, and sadness. And the bedrock of it all: superiority. What could be more valuable in a society that values society above all else? For me it was mostly moral conquest - my own little private superiority. I only got the wins others could see in the rare moments when I had the courage, stupidity, or luck to find myself on top in some contest of ability. Eventually, when my moral superiority became hard to believe in, epistemological superiority became attractive. I was already well-equipped; the intellectual high bar was my event.

Unfortunately, life just kept happening and I still wasn’t getting what I wanted, so determinism became a no-brainer (or an only-brainer, if you like). One things leads to another, and I’m a moralist again, doomed to a superiority no one could see.

What if I’d been more selfish? What if I’d insisted on seeing what was right under my nose? What if rationality had been about achieving knowledge rather than constructing philosophies? About striking gold rather than practicing alchemy? What if the only thing I needed to trust was myself? What if I’d allowed myself to feel my own being in its totality? What if I’d belonged on Earth?

The Vikings, not to mention the Greeks, had some of this. They had a worldliness that polytheisms like Hinduism and monotheisms pulled out from under their own feet. Even if the Vikings and Greeks were too often rash and mindless in their practice, they took for granted that reality had something to offer to them. And their failure in life was the proof of any guilt they warranted. They didn’t believe that guilt was something one carried around in one’s soul as a reminder never to assert oneself. For them, it was the only reason there could be to assert oneself. This is religious metaphysics, of course, but at the very least, it doesn’t foreclose on the possibility of existential vitality.

Why humanity today won’t embrace this such a lust for life - and to what lengths of corruption they will go to enact it anyways, against their best “judgment” - is a question, the answer to which Ayn Rand gave. This fact is becoming very real to me, and soon, the reality it represents will too.

Does this resonate with anyone? How many children have had/are having the same experience? What about its empiricist twin brother? Who here succumbed to that particular drooling beast? What was that like?

And most importantly, how is a child in this world supposed to grow up properly, without the bottomless guilt that is supposed to come from the decision to love oneself? How does one laugh and smile as shamelessly as a child year after year?

@HowardRoarkSpaceDetective From Shame to Sin / The Human Spark / The Evolving Self

I think it is easier now to attain freedom from pain, fear, and guilt and to have romantic love and understanding of reality than in any “good old days” that we base on facts we have found of old days. Parents of my age have told me—and I think it was the case with my own childhood—that morality was said in the terms “How would you like it if they treated you that way?” 

I think you are right that most people’s morality is inconsistent (and lacking in the virtue of loving yourself, your rational mind). Naturally, it would have been even more inconsistent in preliterate societies, where spotting contradictions is more cramped. Proclaiming inconsistent morality to youth, today as ever, situation-by-situation ends up with patchworks pulling against each other. At times pride is held as good, as in being proud of your achievements (the latter being a good thing). At other times, pride is denounced, as in the idea that one should be humble.

Rand 1957 suggested that one’s concoctions of golden eras of a distant human past are traces of what one’s early life was like before being tainted by false teachings of morality, metaphysics, and epistemology. I don’t think so. I think that such concoctions are brews of present life with some social conflicts and some hardness of life and happiness imagined absent. There is a false idea put forth in The Fountainhead and with less prominence in Atlas Shrugged. That is the idea that the main source of pain and suffering in the world is due to conflicts with other people (and the sources of those conflicts). To the contrary, the main source is nature. It is nature mostly that brings people incapacity and death.

A morality of life, such as Rand’s, can be adequate only if it is addressing human life simultaneously acting in both realms. Best serenity, I think, lies in keeping honest continual awareness of coming decline and death of self and others, free of myth, and holding finite life right here underway as the ground and arena of all worth.

Thanks for the stimulating reflection.

@BoydstunThe Greek/Norse religions were certainly as socially metaphysical as any other, if not more. I think what strikes me is that there was a kind of instrumentality to their reverence for the gods. It was a survival tactic for most, as was reverence for any authority. (Keeping in mind how much creative liberty was taken by the show’s creators, one of the major themes in the first several seasons is that of Ragnar’s wishing to transcend Odin, and eventually religion more generally.) Even the Old Testament is more comprehensible on this model. Judaism’s legalism did much to reinforce the supposed incomprehensibility of reality, as does any dogma. Monotheism and equating God with existence buries one’s social metaphysics at the level of bedrock. Once Augustine had done his work, personal advantage had become a truly dirty word and “How would you like it if they treated you that way?” became something of a moral self-evidency. This expression always frustrated me as a child. I was surprised to see it used by Rand as a justification for respect for individual rights, but I suppose it’s valid in a very specific context.

3 hours ago, Boydstun said:

I think that such concoctions are brews of present life with some social conflicts and some hardness of life and happiness imagined absent.

Maybe it’s more accurate to say that premises that have created lifelong trouble predispose one to deterministic or self-exonerating thinking, of which the “golden days” idea is one variety.

3 hours ago, Boydstun said:

That is the idea that the main source of pain and suffering in the world is due to conflicts with other people (and the sources of those conflicts).

I’ve noticed this as well. I’ve assumed that, in the case of AS, it was because the the story is so heavily political, and in the FH, because it would have been unlikely for Roark to suffer in a way worth discussing if he lived outside of society. Perhaps this is not the case. In both books, Rand places a good deal of emphasis on how much happiness can be gained from being in society with good people, notably when it came to Dagny’s response to Galt. I long for literature that depicts an ascent to moral greatness that is even more extreme than that of near-heroes Dagny and Hank because this would necessarily have to involve a character’s struggle with themselves (and human nature generally) rather than primarily with others.

@HowardRoarkSpaceDetective

“How would you like it if they treated you that way?” 

I don’t see Rand resting her case for respecting individual rights on that circumstance. She was able to set the rightness of respecting the rights of others on the virtue of justice (treating people as the kind of thing they are, which is the rational, objective way) and the kind of thing people are is ends in themselves. In the background, naturally, is the early learning of most anyone that if you treat people badly, there will often be retort in kind upon oneself. For her argument, as I recall, Rand did not bring up that learned background.

“How would you like it if they treated you that way?” is different, of course, from the strategic “If you treat people that way, they may retaliate.” The former relies on some amount of ability to gather how other people are in the suffering you would bring upon them. And it relies on some ability to put ones own self in a sort of kinship with other selves. That does not amount to altruism. (Altruism is the doing of things for others from consideration of their interests rather from consideration of your own interests, where doing such a deed is against your own interests.) Perhaps an ability to recognize such a likeness or kinship of selves is a prerequisite of altruism in that such an ability seems necessary in order to have a real sense of what is in the interest of others. This ability seems also necessary for egoism in a social situation in terms strategic games: it is good for your pursuit of self-interest to be able to anticipate responding moves of others.

There is a symmetry-and-reciprocity-invocation used in Rand 1957 to undermine sacrificial altruism when she says: 

I could swear I heard Piekoff make the reciprocity argument for rights in some lecture of his. Regardless, your explanation makes sense - that it is a matter of justice. The justice argument explains the wealth created under capitalism better than the reciprocity argument does.

On 7/29/2024 at 5:47 PM, Boydstun said:

There is a symmetry-and-reciprocity-invocation used in Rand 1957 to undermine sacrificial altruism when she says: 

That’s a reading of “How would you like it?” that I’d forgotten about. It’s basically Rawls’ Veil of Ignorance. “What if you were poor? Wouldn’t you want people to give you stuff?”

But I think you’re right that there is a proper context for “How would you like it?”, that context being teaching empathy. But as with so many platitudes, I imagine it was used in the wrong contexts by the adults in my life.