Masturbation is the manual excitation of the sexual organs, most often to the point of orgasm. It can refer to excitation either by oneself or by another (see mutual masturbation), but commonly refers to such activities performed alone. It is part of a larger set of activities known as autoeroticism, which also includes the use of sex toys and non-genital stimulation.
If the term is not well-defined, follow the link and see the pictures
Question: Is is moral to Masturbate AND to fantasize having real sex?
(Just to make sure, I`m talking in a personal context. leave the government out.)
Wouldnt that count as evading reality? (For, in reality - Im single)
If the only reason for masturbating is pleasure, would that not count as hedonism? can a man “living QUA man” masturbate?
Sex is depicted by Rand as a “celebration of one`s existence”. Is is moral to celebrate by myself?
Is it moral to watch (“unspeakbly disguisting”/AR) pornography, for assistance in masturbation?
If the term is not well-defined, follow the link and see the pictures
Question: Is is moral to Masturbate AND to fantasize having real sex?
(Just to make sure, I`m talking in a personal context. leave the government out.)
Wouldnt that count as evading reality? (For, in reality - Im single)
If the only reason for masturbating is pleasure, would that not count as hedonism? can a man “living QUA man” masturbate?
Sex is depicted by Rand as a “celebration of one`s existence”. Is is moral to celebrate by myself?
Is it moral to watch (“unspeakbly disguisting”/AR) pornography, for assistance in masturbation?
what is moral is soley based on the what the individual thinks.to you pornography may seem (unspeakably disguisting but to another it may seem very relaxing,pleasurable.
isnt it safer to watch pornography than to engage in actual sex which can lead to stds or consception of a baby which could lead to unwanted responsibility of dealing with that baby or other emotional problems
what is moral is soley based on the what the individual thinks.to you pornography may seem (unspeakably disguisting but to another it may seem very relaxing,pleasurable.
This is wrong. Morality doesn’t consist of: Do whatever you feel like doing.
It’s not arbitrary.
isnt it safer to watch pornography than to engage in actual sex which can lead to stds or consception of a baby which could lead to unwanted responsibility of dealing with that baby or other emotional problems
The goal of life is not safety. You cannot live that way on principle.
Sex is more pleasureable than masturbation. And if you do it with someone you know and care for (and do not **** everything that didn’t hide at the count of three), the problems of sexual diseases is practically zero.
To get no babys, use condoms or the pill and if you still get pregnant/make her pregnant, there is still the possibility of abortion.
You can’t just live a sexless life because you could get diseases or pregnancy. These are natural risks.
It’s like not eating because there could be poison in your food.
In general:
masturbation is completely moral if it is the best you can get.
YGoldenberg, I suggest the best way to tackle these questions is to expand on each one of them a little more.
Wouldnt that count as evading reality? (For, in reality - Im single)
What does evasion entail? What types of actions? Is it the avoidance of something? If so, of what?
If the only reason for masturbating is pleasure, would that not count as hedonism? Can a man “living QUA man” masturbate?
Are hedonistic actions wrong because they give one pleasure or in spite of it? Is it the pleasure itself that is the problem? Is the pleasure itself destructive of life?
Sex is depicted by Rand as a “celebration of one`s existence”. Is it moral to celebrate by myself?
If one considers this in isolation, the obvious answer seems to be ‘yes’. In what sense is sex a celebration of one’s existence?
Is it moral to watch (“unspeakbly disgusting”/AR) pornography, for assistance in masturbation?
There’s a pretty long discussion of pornography in another thread. I suggest you work through the ‘non-porn masturbation’ example first, and then move on to that.
The goal of life is not safety. You cannot live that way on principle.
Sex is more pleasureable than masturbation. And if you do it with someone you know and care for (and do not fuck everything that didn’t hide at the count of three), the problems of sexual diseases is practically zero.
To get no babys, use condoms or the pill and if you still get pregnant/make her pregnant, there is still the possibility of abortion.
You can’t just live a sexless life because you could get diseases or pregnancy. These are natural risks.
It’s like not eating because there could be poison in your food.
In general:
masturbation is completely moral if it is the best you can get.
I agree with Felix on this one, in that masturbation is completely moral if you have no [moral] alternatives open to you.
I do not think it is neccesarily evading reality to masturbate when you are single. You are not masturbating in order to convince yourself (at least in the longterm, you might imagine that you are not single during the act, but this is OK, as long as you keep the fantasy seperate from your identification of reality) that you are not single I would presume
You are masturbating in order to provide yourself pleasure in the absence of having someone to provide it. It it not hedonism unless perhaps you take it to the extreme, it is not immoral to provide yourself a dose of physical pleasure as long as you keep in mind that the better alternative would be sex with another person and that you should at least be open to obtaining this morally (ie with a person you love).
Pleasure is innocent until proven guilty. Unless you are faking (which is distinct from fantasizing), masturbation is perfectly moral – whether or not you’re in a relationship. The fact that pleasure is not the standard of value, doesn’t mean that pleasure as such isn’t a value. It is, so long as it doesn’t undercut a higher value.
Well, that actually raises an interesting question: what is the value of time? I would argue that as such it doesn’t have any, except in the sense that extending the amount of it you have is generally a good thing. The value of time equals the value of what you’re doing with it. If you are pursuing, gaining, or enjoying a value, then you’re not “wasting time.” Unless you’re compulsive about it, masturbation certainly doesn’t fall under that category.
Pleasure is innocent until proven guilty. Unless you are faking (which is distinct from fantasizing), masturbation is perfectly moral – whether or not you’re in a relationship. The fact that pleasure is not the standard of value, doesn’t mean that pleasure as such isn’t a value. It is, so long as it doesn’t undercut a higher value.
Agreed. Until this post, I kept thinking, why is masturbation only moral when it’s the only option available? It’s moral no matter what (unless, as Don pointed out, it becomes a compulsive behavior). And if it’s the only option available to you at the time, I’d almost say it’s immoral not to masturbate.
To elaborate and correct all the errors made previously:
There is never a case “against” any actions arbirarily hanging out in the middle of goddamn nowhere. In fact, there is never a successful negative case for anything - thats the agnostics’ trick, and false logic.
Pleasure is not ‘innocent until proven guilty.’ As someone else mentioned, pleasure is the sensation of the accomplishment of goals in line with your sense of life - and that can be mighty far off. You should not be lead around by your emotions, you should be lead around by your logical mind.
Anyway, the proper process is to prove a case for masturbation. What is its purpose in your life? What are its costs? Are there any alternatives that are better/more efficient with your time?
Pleasure is not ‘innocent until proven guilty.’ As someone else mentioned, pleasure is the sensation of the accomplishment of goals in line with your sense of life - and that can be mighty far off. You should not be lead around by your emotions, you should be lead around by your logical mind.
Pancho - I think you miss the point of pleasure being innocent until proven guilty. You are correct in that the mere fact that something is pleasurable does not necessarily mean that it is appropriate. That would be hedonism. At the same time, however, the mere fact that something is pleasurable does not necessarily make it inappropriate or evil. That would be Puritanism.
As for the “sensation of the accomplishment of goals in line with your sense of life,” I think that comes closer to “happiness” (in the Objectivist sense of the term) than “pleasure” - though Ayn Rand described happiness a bit more broadly as the achievement of one’s values rather than specific goals.
Pleasure is something much more immediate and does not necessarily have to tied to a goal to be experienced or to be appropriate. For example, I consider eating certain flavors of ice cream to be a pleasure. While it is true that eating ice cream could be the reward I give myself for accomplishing certain goals, it doesn’t have to be in order for it to be a pleasure. So long as I don’t eat too much of it, ice cream is a pleasure independent of any goals I might have - and that can be one of the things that makes it a big value. For example, perhaps someone is really focused on some very difficult goal that is so far off and requires certain things that are beyond his ability to directly control to work out just right and he begins to fall into the mood of growing weary and doubtful. Taking a break from everything, temporarily forgetting one’s goals and difficulties and “living in the moment” by doing something pleasurable such as eating ice cream can help restore one’s proper perspective on things. Or, to take another example, let’s say that some sort of goal you have been passionately towards for a very long time suddenly ends up in ruin for whatever reason and the whole endeavor becomes a colossal failure. Obviously something like that is a huge disappointment and, if the achievement of the goal was a high value, it can even be discouraging and depressing. Here, too, “living in the moment” and doing something that one considers to be pleasurable such as eating ice cream can help restore one’s perspective by reminding one in a very concrete way that the world _ is _ a wonderful place and that life is wonderful.
Of course, eating too much ice cream would be a bad thing. And not showing up for a major exam so that one could eat ice cream instead would obviously be a very bad and irrational thing to do. Context is everything. The essential point is what DPW said: “The fact that pleasure is not the standard of value, doesn’t mean that pleasure as such isn’t a value. It is, so long as it doesn’t undercut a higher value.”
Pancho - I think you miss the point of pleasure being innocent until proven guilty. You are correct in that the mere fact that something is pleasurable does not necessarily mean that it is appropriate. That would be hedonism. At the same time, however, the mere fact that something is pleasurable does not necessarily make it inappropriate or evil. That would be Puritanism.
Good thing I never said or implied that then, huh?
Pleasure is something much more immediate and does not necessarily have to tied to a goal to be experienced or to be appropriate. For example, I consider eating certain flavors of ice cream to be a pleasure. While it is true that eating ice cream could be the reward I give myself for accomplishing certain goals, it doesn’t have to be in order for it to be a pleasure. So long as I don’t eat too much of it, ice cream is a pleasure independent of any goals I might have - and that can be one of the things that makes it a big value.
So ice cream in now way contributes to your goals, like say survival?
It has calories. You certainly need to intake them.
There is no ‘neutral’ ground, an action either contributes to your life/happiness (and is good) or destroys it (and is bad.)
So ice cream in now way contributes to your goals, like say survival?
I assume you mean “in no way.” Neither does eating well-cooked flavorful food as opposed to, say, Ramen noodle soup and vitamin supplements.
It has calories. You certainly need to intake them.
It also tastes good. If nutrition were the only thing involved (since it’s what’s necessary to insure survival), there’d be no reason to choose between ice cream and bland processed algae or unflavored tofu. (Indeed, the latter might well be better on nutritional grounds.) But there’s more than survival, there’s enjoyment of life.
There is no ‘neutral’ ground, an action either contributes to your life/happiness (and is good) or destroys it (and is bad.)
Yes, and you shouldn’t confound survival and happiness, as you did in your reply.
So ice cream in now way contributes to your goals, like say survival?
It has calories. You certainly need to intake them.
Sure one needs to intake calories in order to survive and ice cream certainly has calories. But so does cold gruel and raw potatos which can be had for far less expense. Ask yourself why on a summer evening in a big city you will see people standing in line to buy ice cream yet you never see people lined up to buy potatos. Since potatos can be obtained for less expense of both irreplaceable time and hard earned money, do you think this reflects badly on the people who are standing in line for ice cream?
As a matter of fact, it is. Pleasure is a sensation indicating that something is conducive to life. You have to argue that this sensation is misleading in a given case.
As someone else mentioned, pleasure is the sensation of the accomplishment of goals in line with your sense of life - and that can be mighty far off. You should not be lead around by your emotions, you should be lead around by your logical mind.
You’re confusing pleasure and happiness, as pointed out before, and you’re confusing emotions and pleasure as well.
Anyway, the proper process is to prove a case for masturbation. What is its purpose in your life? What are its costs? Are there any alternatives that are better/more efficient with your time?
What is the purpose of cooking flavorful food from scratch? It takes a lot of time and the only difference between eating that food and something bland or prepackaged is that the taste is (presumably) better. And think of the costs–you could be spending your time and money on accomplishing your long-term goals rather than the immediate pleasure of the good taste. And of course there are alternatives that are more efficient with your time–you could heat up some Ramen noodle soup, slam it down, and go back to your long-term goals.
Similarly, what’s the point in painting the walls of your house a bright color that pleases you? It costs time and money for nothing but pleasureful color. For that matter, why not just live in a dry cave? It costs less money and it protects your property just as well if you install a door. I’ve seen from your pictures that you don’t live in a cave. So tell us, since pleasure is not innocent until proven guilty, what your argument is for living in a bright, well-lit place. Presumably it gives you some degree of pleasure to do so. So how do you know it’s good? Have you teased it out down to the roots? If not, then you’re acting on range of the moment emotions, by your argument, and you need to stop right now and determine how it contributes to your long-term goals and how it’s not harmful.
