On the Twin Cities, Secession and Harry Binswanger

Yaron Brook recently read from and recommended this essay by Harry Binswanger on the ICE riots in Minneapolis.

https://harrybinswanger.substack.com/p/ice-vs-the-rule-of-law-not-of-men

I’d like to respond to it from an Objectivist frame of reference.  By this, I do not mean that Ayn Rand’s word is automatically gospel, but that we should approach the conversation as if everyone involved is familiar with and broadly agrees with her.  If you disagree with anything that she said then you should make your disagreement explicit and you should provide some very good arguments as to why you think you’re right.
Some of these things she never explicitly touched on.  Many of them she did, though, and it’s profoundly demoralizing that such figures as Harry Binswanger and Yaron Brook apparently need to be reminded of it.

 

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“When the police tell you to get out of your vehicle, you do,” they say. “If she had shown that proper respect for law enforcement, she’d be alive today,” some add.

I’m hearing these sentiments from people on my membership site (hbletter.com), people who welcome immigrants and condemn efforts to deport “illegals.”

Incidentally, this precisely describes my own position.  I’m not convinced that ICE are the good guys - only that their opponents are the worse guys.
It’s not a long essay and it’s worth reading.  He argues that ICE does not represent the rule of law, but the rule of men, and that it should be resisted.  The real crux of it is here:

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To make vivid the real meaning of this whole set-up, imagine that a Democratic president, operating with support from a Democratic Congress, raises the same hue and cry about income tax evasion that the Republicans have raised about criminal immigrants.

Suppose that this Democratic president sets up within the Internal Revenue Service a division of “Enforcement.” The IRS hires tens of thousands of tough guys to be armed, masked, and sent around the country to conduct raids on homes and businesses, looking for “tax cheats.” In the view of the IRS Enforcers, anyone with a big house, luxury automobile, or Rolex watch should be assumed to be a “tax cheat” and has to prove to the IRS Enforcers that he isn’t. And assume that the actions of IRS Enforcers are shielded from outside review just as the actions of ICE agents are now.

Is this too outrageous? The Left’s demonization of “millionaires and billionaires” closely parallels the Right’s demonization of immigrant hordes of “rapists and narcoterrorists.” Just as the charge of “tax evasion” is a cover for hatred of the self-made man, so the charge of “criminality” among immigrants is a cover for xenophobic fear of anyone who looks different (sorry, the Left is correct on that).

The only difference between ICE and the hypothetical IRS Enforcement division is that IRS Enforcement would keep its victims here, in its own Alligator Alcatrazes.

Now, what if some of these armed IRS Enforcers saw you in your car protesting them and ordered you to get out of your vehicle? What would you do?

You might obey, out of fear. You might obey to prevent violence, which you know would serve the goals of the Democratic president. Those are real, prudential considerations to weigh.

But I am raising the moral question: Would respect for the rule of law morally oblige you to obey the IRS Enforcers and get out of your car?

No. There could be no moral or philosophical reason to treat such “orders” with respect, to pretend that these IRS goons are “officers of the law.”

It’s worth noting that he doesn’t mention exactly what Renee Good was doing in her car beyond “protesting”.  I believe Yaron Brook even skipped the phrase “protesting them” in that sentence, which made the omission too obvious to miss when I was listening to it.
The hypothetical I phrased to Mister Brook last week was “what if I parked my car in front of IRS agents to physically prevent them from collecting any taxes”, which is not quite the same as “in my car, protesting” let alone simply “in my car”.  What this really ought to read as is:

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The only difference between ICE and the hypothetical IRS Enforcement division is that IRS Enforcement would keep its victims here, in its own Alligator Alcatrazes.

Now, what if you parked your car in the middle of a street in order to prevent IRS agents from collecting any taxes, and the now-blockaded IRS agents ordered you to get out of your vehicle? What would you do?

You might obey, out of fear. You might obey to prevent violence, which you know would serve the goals of the Democratic president. Those are real, prudential considerations to weigh.

But I am raising the moral question: Would respect for the rule of law morally oblige you to obey the IRS Enforcers and get out of your car?

No. There could be no moral or philosophical reason to treat such “orders” with respect, to pretend that these IRS goons are “officers of the law.”

Now, I’m not going to argue that you should treat such orders with respect.  Not at all.  I’m simply going to point out where this argument leads.
 

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[T]here is no justification, in a civilized society, for the kind of mass civil disobedience that involves the violation of the rights of others—regardless of whether the demonstrators’ goal is good or evil. The end does not justify the means. No one’s rights can be secured by the violation of the rights of others. Mass disobedience is an assault on the concept of rights: it is a mob’s defiance of legality as such.

The forcible occupation of another man’s property or the obstruction of a public thoroughfare is so blatant a violation of rights that an attempt to justify it becomes an abrogation of morality. An individual has no right to do a “sit-in” in the home or office of a person he disagrees with—and he does not acquire such a right by joining a gang. Rights are not a matter of numbers—and there can be no such thing, in law or in morality, as actions forbidden to an individual, but permitted to a mob.

The only power of a mob, as against an individual, is greater muscular strength—i.e., plain, brute physical force. The attempt to solve social problems by means of physical force is what a civilized society is established to prevent. The advocates of mass civil disobedience admit that their purpose is intimidation. A society that tolerates intimidation as a means of settling disputes—the physical intimidation of some men or groups by others—loses its moral right to exist as a social system, and its collapse does not take long to follow.

Politically, mass civil disobedience is appropriate only as a prelude to civil war—as the declaration of a total break with a country’s political institutions.

From “The Cashing-In”.

In essence, IF we accept the argument that ICE agents have no legitimate authority and that we ought to defy their orders on principle, THEN we must necessarily be at the political stage where rebellion or secession is necessary.
This is something a lot of people seem to miss when they reminisce about the Boston Tea Party, and how America was allegedly founded on the sanctity of “civil disobedience”.  The Boston Tea Party (and all the civil disobedience leading up to the revolutionary war) were followed by a rebellion.  And the right to revolt is something America is founded on.
You cannot have it halfway, though.  You cannot say “yes, we should have mass civil disobedience, but not an actual rebellion”.  It is one or the other.  As Ayn Rand said in the Cashing-In, that is the only circumstance under which mass civil disobedience is appropriate.

And I do have a word of warning before everyone declares that now is the time to boogaloo.  In Global Balkanization Ayn Rand also said:

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If a province wants to secede from a dictatorship, or even from a mixed economy, in order to establish a free country—it has the right to do so. But if a local gang, ethnic or otherwise, wants to secede in order to establish its own government controls, it does not have that right. No group has the right to violate the rights of the individuals who happen to live in the same locality. A wish—individual or collective—is not a right.

So what kind of state do the ICE protesters wish to establish?  If they were given a magic wand and allowed to have whatever sort of country they wished, what would they wish for?

Although they do not all agree with each other on everything, some broad consensuses are clear.  They do see violence as a legitimate method of settling disputes - if you are or you represent someone who is “oppressed”.  If you are fighting to uphold the rights of the rich, the strong, the intelligent, the able, the innocent or (as offensive as it is to add to this list, this is genuinely how they think) the white, forget it; you have no rights.  They’re not big fans of logic or epistemological rigor.  They are fans of doing, then feeling about the doing - again, so long as you’re not white; white liberals in the Twin Cities felt compelled to apologize for publicly displaying any of their own “white tears” in the wake of Good’s death.
In essence, they are the very same student rebels at Berkeley that Ayn Rand was discussing in The Cashing-In, only all grown up and with a few even nastier new developments.

Every single one of these people is a race-Communist.

So my word of warning is this.  Before you decide that you’d like to fight alongside these people in a shooting war, take a vacation to the Twin Cities to meet them.  I mean it.  Think of it as a necessary pre-war act of reconnaissance.  Come and talk to your potential confederates about what kind of society you’d like to see established after America, and hear what they have to say about it.  Then, in light of the things you may learn from meeting these people, stop to reflect on whether now is really the time to boogaloo or whether it actually might be better to fight ICE through the properly established legal channels.

Do not give your moral sanction away blindly.  If you do choose to give it to the ICE protesters, do it with the full knowledge of what you are supporting.

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People who are peacefully protesting ICE deserve to be praised, supported, and assisted.

Come and join the protests, then, and praise them in person.  I am serious.

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52 minutes ago, Harrison Danneskjold said:

Come and join the protests, then, and praise them in person.  I am serious.

I might very well do that if I lived closer.  I’m not ruling out deciding at some point that it’s worth the trip.

 

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My moral condemnation is against killing a citizen who objects without trying to harm anyone physically. I’m not a leftist. My condemnation is part of me protecting my own rights; it is to my rational self-interest that this tendency in the government NOT exist. Maybe some people support illegal aliens more than the police, I don’t know, and it’s NOT relevant to this position. Most immigrants are not criminals, illegal or not. Meanwhile, this administration and ICE are treating people who simply don’t have legal papers as criminals, including some American citizens with accents or darker skin.

The segment of the population, immigrants or not, that are actual criminals should be disliked. Notice the Hyundai plant that was raided. Employed tax-paying people, not street thugs. It’s painting the moral condemnation of this policy as being a defund the police position, which it is not. There is a place for the police, a proper place … not like the police in Iran, not like the Gestapo.

Fortunately, most who have seen the ICE behavior and worse … the behavior of the chain of command mischaracterizing the victims as being domestic terrorists are being noticed. Any injustice by the state can be justified as long as you or I are accused of being domestic terrorists.

Obama deported 2 million people, and no one saw anything like this. It’s the whole policy and rhetoric that has created a problem. Regular police are up in arms that ICE is not policing. Turns out people who were rejected by regular police are frequently the ones hired by ICE.

Our government wants to call Somali people trash, or Mexicans rapists, or people from shit countries as less than. Since some Americans commit crimes Should all of us be called criminals? Maybe not. Should the rest of us be the only ones respected under the law?  With Trump’s undeclared morality, we end up with a state that respects unequal rights under the law, and a knee-jerk support of “police” and “law and order” without objective moral analysis as its foundation.

 

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On 1/27/2026 at 10:56 PM, Easy Truth said:

The segment of the population, immigrants or not, that are actual criminals should be disliked. Notice the Hyundai plant that was raided. Employed tax-paying people, not street thugs. It’s painting the moral condemnation of this policy as being a defund the police position, which it is not. There is a place for the police, a proper place … not like the police in Iran, not like the Gestapo.

See, you can’t discuss the issue without comparing the administration to Nazi Germany.  Not even when you’re trying to clarify your own position in your own words.

You are wrong in that comparison - but let’s skip that, for now.  Let’s assume you were right.

If you were right and ICE was basically the gestapo then you should try to revolt.  If all of your arguments about why civil disobedience is right are correct (they’re not, but if they were) then the necessary consequence is revolution.

 

On 1/27/2026 at 10:56 PM, Easy Truth said:

Obama deported 2 million people, and no one saw anything like this.

Yes, because Minnesota fully cooperated with Obama’s ICE.

ICE is not just in Minnesota.  In other states the police inform ICE when they arrest an illegal immigrant, and ICE simply takes them straight from the jails.  No need to go looking for anybody, no mess, no fuss.  That’s exactly what Minnesota had been doing under Obama.  Between Minnesota’s refusal to give ICE that information now and specifically the Minneapolis police department’s betrayal of its own citizens (in turning a blind eye towards anything and everything that the violent rioters are doing) most of the responsibility for this situation rests with them.

 

On 1/27/2026 at 10:56 PM, Easy Truth said:

Regular police are up in arms that ICE is not policing.

You mean the Minneapolis PD?  The same Minneapolis PD that has a distinct interest in making sure that 100% of the blame for the total lack of policing going on is placed on ICE?  The Minneapolis PD that is paid specifically to protect the individual rights of Minneapolis citizens?

I’m sorry; I’m gonna have a hard time saying much more about the Minneapolis PD without getting nasty.  They certainly have made some statements, that much is true.

On 1/27/2026 at 10:56 PM, Easy Truth said:

Turns out people who were rejected by regular police are frequently the ones hired by ICE.

Over the past few months about twenty members of the Minneapolis PD have quit those jobs specifically to join ICE.

The Minneapolis PD was gutted in the Defund the Police movement of 2020.  They have yet to reach the number of police officers they’re supposed to have.  They were short-staffed before they betrayed their own citizens, and are now losing what officers they have left to ICE.

Riddle me that one.

 

On 1/27/2026 at 10:56 PM, Easy Truth said:

With Trump’s undeclared morality, we end up with a state that respects unequal rights under the law, and a knee-jerk support of “police” and “law and order” without objective moral analysis as its foundation.

By the way, I hate the Minneapolis PD.  It’s not that I have any support for those overdressed PR agents.  But it would be a good idea for somebody to enforce some fucking laws around here.

At the end of the day, some of this comes down to the rights of illegal immigrants - which I agree, should be respected.  Some of this comes down to what you think you know based on what you’ve seen in the media - which is false, but which I would probably have a difficult time proving to you.  And some of it ought to come down to who these “protesters” actually are and what they’re actually fighting for - which may not be what you think they’re fighting for.

 

On 1/27/2026 at 10:17 PM, Doug Morris said:

I might very well do that if I lived closer.  I’m not ruling out deciding at some point that it’s worth the trip.

 

Thank you.  We are talking about civil war.  It’s serious.  Please come and see for yourself.

Be careful what you say while you’re here and stay safe.

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“I know you’ve been seeing red
Don’t put a pistol to your head
Sometimes your answer’s heaven sent
Your way is so damn PERMANENT!”
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7s7ks0q4fw

 

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Yesterday senator Dick Durbin introduced an image of Alex Pretti’s final moments as evidence in the US senate.
“What was the Trump administration’s immediate response when they heard of a second killing in Minneapolis?  Not to bring down the temperature, but instead to rush to the American people with one message: don’t believe your eyes.  Don’t believe what you see” he said in a very somber voice as he gestured at the picture.


The picture of a headless cyborg ICE agent.

There’s a bigger problem with all these pictures and videos, which is context.  And it’s not really a new problem. 
Back in 2020 the whole country decided “we SAW George Floyd being murdered!  We all SAW it with our own eyes!”  Which is not really true.  We saw a man die, certainly.  But the fact that we all watched it happening does not mean that we know how or why it happened - and even if it had been because of the knee on Floyd’s neck (which it categorically was not) that would mean that we saw an unjustified killing; whether it was murder or manslaughter would depend on what was in Derek Chauvin’s mind at the time, which usually isn’t directly observable on video.  There was a widespread attitude that online video evidence does not require additional context or mental processing; you can tell a murder from any other form of death in the same way you can tell red from blue.  And the media has absolutely hijacked that same attitude this time around (which is exactly what they were doing about the “genocide in Gaza” for the last few years) to trick people into uncritically accepting however they choose to frame any given piece of evidence.

And then there is, of course, the fact that this is the twenty-first century.  You cannot always believe everything your eyes see on the internet.

There are no headless cyborgs in Minneapolis.

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37 minutes ago, Harrison Danneskjold said:

Yesterday senator Dick Durbin introduced an image of Alex Pretti’s final moments as evidence in the US senate.
“What was the Trump administration’s immediate response when they heard of a second killing in Minneapolis?  Not to bring down the temperature, but instead to rush to the American people with one message: don’t believe your eyes.  Don’t believe what you see” he said in a very somber voice as he gestured at the picture.


The picture of a headless cyborg ICE agent.

There’s a bigger problem with all these pictures and videos, which is context.  And it’s not really a new problem. 
Back in 2020 the whole country decided “we SAW George Floyd being murdered!  We all SAW it with our own eyes!”  Which is not really true.  We saw a man die, certainly.  But the fact that we all watched it happening does not mean that we know how or why it happened - and even if it had been because of the knee on Floyd’s neck (which it categorically was not) that would mean that we saw an unjustified killing; whether it was murder or manslaughter would depend on what was in Derek Chauvin’s mind at the time, which usually isn’t directly observable on video.  There was a widespread attitude that online video evidence does not require additional context or mental processing; you can tell a murder from any other form of death in the same way you can tell red from blue.  And the media has absolutely hijacked that same attitude this time around (which is exactly what they were doing about the “genocide in Gaza” for the last few years) to trick people into uncritically accepting however they choose to frame any given piece of evidence.

And then there is, of course, the fact that this is the twenty-first century.  You cannot always believe everything your eyes see on the internet.

There are no headless cyborgs in Minneapolis.

So…have you watched any of the various videos from various angles depicting what happened with Pretti? Is there some additional context you’ve seen (not just “can imagine” but have actually seen) that you think is worth considering, which would make the actions of the ICE officers okay? Unlike the Chauvin case (which I don’t desire to relitigate here), they can’t claim that they didn’t expect their actions to result in death: “gosh we thought the bullets would just tickle.” And the specific point Durbin made, that the admin immediately rushed to label Pretti a terrorist (in a manner that suggested contempt for the second amendment, no less) is correct. 

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2 hours ago, Jon C said:

So…have you watched any of the various videos from various angles depicting what happened with Pretti? Is there some additional context you’ve seen (not just “can imagine” but have actually seen) that you think is worth considering, which would make the actions of the ICE officers okay?

Nope.  And it may have been an unjustified shooting; I don’t know.

I suspect that they probably had some reason for shooting him.  I don’t know if that was a good reason or a bad reason, because I don’t know what that reason is.  That’s the kind of information we’re not going to have until after there’s been an investigation.
Anyone who claims that this was a “murder” is also claiming to have that information, in which case I’d very much like to know what it is and how they know it.

 

2 hours ago, Jon C said:

And the specific point Durbin made, that the admin immediately rushed to label Pretti a terrorist (in a manner that suggested contempt for the second amendment, no less) is correct. 

That’s true.
 

16 hours ago, Harrison Danneskjold said:

Thank you.  We are talking about civil war.  It’s serious.  Please come and see for yourself.

Be careful what you say while you’re here and stay safe.

On further reflection, I can actually be much more helpful to anyone who’s considering coming here to witness the situation firsthand.

There are large sections of the Twin Cities that are basically safe.  Roseville, Maplewood, Columbia Heights; especially if it’s during daylight hours and you’re not engaging in particularly risky behavior, you should be fine.  You’ll even be able to see some ICE activity and the protesters, and as long as you keep your mouth shut around the protesters and don’t try to obstruct ICE you won’t get hurt there, either.

There is a light rail line that runs all the way across the Twin Cities.  It’s a consistent hotbed of criminal activity, even during normal times, and during the 2020 riots and right now all of the very worst things are all happening within a few blocks of that light rail line.
Treat your proximity to that light rail line as an indicator of your personal safety.  Do not stay at any hotel overlooking it.  If you go to any protest that’s happening close to that light rail line (especially if it’s at night) do not carry anything valuable with you and keep your head on a swivel.  Laws are not enforced in that area at night (and in daylight hours it’s a coin flip) so be aware that you will be walking into a little pocket of anarchy in the middle of an otherwise orderly and peaceful area.

That area around the light rail is not governed by the state of Minnesota or anybody else.

The state-worshipping, boot-licking brain-rot on display by certain posters in this thread demonstrates why the words of philosophers like Yaron Brook, Harry Binswanger, and Ayn Rand are necessary for a free society.

Some people are just born to be slaves.

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5 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

The state-worshipping, boot-licking brain-rot on display by certain posters in this thread demonstrates why the words of philosophers like Yaron Brook, Harry Binswanger, and Ayn Rand are necessary for a free society.

Some people are just born to be slaves.

So revolt - YOURSELF.

Don’t ask other people to do it for you, pussy.  Stop whining about what you call “freedom”, get some guns and go start organizing your resistance.  And make sure to situate yourself as far as possible away from those evil, horrible law enforcement Nazis.  I suggest somewhere very close to the light rail.
Because if you genuinely believe you’re living in Nazi Germany then the fact that you aren’t out shooting cops in the streets demonstrates that you’re a coward and/or a hypocrite.  THIS is what those words you keep using MEAN you fucking idiot.

Go and enjoy the fruits of your ideals in person, scaredy cat.

 

9 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

The state-worshipping, boot-licking brain-rot on display

A lot of talk and analysis has recently been made about the psychology of Donald Trump; how he is a man who doesn’t actually think (not in the fully human sense of the term) or hold long-term beliefs of any sort.  When you ask Donald Trump a question about any given subject, all he does is regurgitate the opinion of whoever last spoke to him about it.  He’s not really a fully conscious being, in the human sense of the term.

And neither are you.
 

9 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

Some people are just born to be slaves.

That really bad section of the Twin Cities I’m describing?  I spent two years homeless on the streets there.  I used to be an anarchist, but have since developed a healthy respect for the concept of having a government.

The difference between us

9 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

words of philosophers like … Ayn Rand

is that I did not pretend to already agree with Rand when I was an anarchist.  Unlike you, I had the spine to stand up and declare in this very forum where I believed that she was wrong, and to make my case.

You ready to talk about the fact that “obstructing a public thoroughfare is such an obvious violation of individual rights that any attempt to justify it becomes an abrogation of morality”?  Because what you’re doing right now is simply pretending that she would have been on your side, when I can quote chapter and verse why she would not be.  This too is an act of cowardice.

Just as every single act of blanking out you made during the course of amputating your own conceptual faculty, in order to appease whomever you were trying to appease (who you probably didn’t even care too much for in the first place) was one additional act of cowardice on the long road into self negation.
 

9 hours ago, SpookyKitty said:

Some people are just born to be slaves.

Not true.  You made your self this way, and you did it by your own choice.

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On 1/29/2026 at 6:03 PM, Harrison Danneskjold said:

On 1/27/2026 at 9:56 PM, Easy Truth said:

Obama deported 2 million people, and no one saw anything like this.

Yes, because Minnesota fully cooperated with Obama’s ICE.

NONSENSE!!! Sanctuary cities are not a recent invention. They have existed since the 1980s.

On 1/29/2026 at 6:03 PM, Harrison Danneskjold said:

If you were right and ICE was basically the gestapo then you should try to revolt.  If all of your arguments about why civil disobedience is right are correct (they’re not, but if they were) then the necessary consequence is revolution.

No, ICE is not the Gestapo; it is using tactics that have some similarity, in particular, the immunity to murder innocent citizens.

On 1/29/2026 at 6:03 PM, Harrison Danneskjold said:

Over the past few months about twenty members of the Minneapolis PD have quit those jobs specifically to join ICE.

Renée Good was killed on January 7, 2026

I don’t think the City would dare to lie about this, as legal action can be taken against it:

“Rumors of dramatic increases in officer resignations are false. Minneapolis PD’s ranks remain stable. There have been fewer than five separations from MPD in 2026. MPD can’t comment on one’s employment decisions once separated through retirement or for other reasons.”

There is no riddle; it’s so simple to decipher:

Key points of tension between local police and ICE include:

  • Erosion of Trust:  Local law enforcement officers state that residents often fail to distinguish between local police and federal agents, causing community fear to rise and trust in local police to wane.
  • Safety Concerns:  ICE agents have been accused of disregarding, or not being trained in, basic, established police, such as weapon retention, crossfire, and vehicle safety protocols.
  • Misrepresentation:  Reports indicate that some ICE agents have, at times, identified themselves as local police to gain entry to homes, which angers local law enforcement.
  • Operational Interference:  Local police have indicated that independent, “heavy-handed” actions by ICE, such as sudden raids, hinder their own efforts to maintain relationships with immigrant communities.
  • Lack of Training and Accountability:  Some in the law enforcement community have expressed concerns that ICE agents, particularly during intensive operations, are less disciplined than, or lack the training of, regular local police forces. 

As a result, some local law enforcement officials have taken steps to distance themselves from ICE operations. 

 

On 1/30/2026 at 7:37 AM, Harrison Danneskjold said:

There’s a bigger problem with all these pictures and videos, which is context.  And it’s not really a new problem. 

You seem to have no issues with the context of these videos and pictures. How do we all attain these extra-sensory abilities? We see someone killed, we see muliple source coroborate it; we see the people in the chain of command lie about it. How uncritical is that? But then … we should not respect our suspicions, our disgust, or our own mind. Gee, you sound like a totalitarian Ayn Rand Villain. Don’t forget to attack the evidence of our senses too. 

On 1/30/2026 at 7:37 AM, Harrison Danneskjold said:

There are no headless cyborgs in Minneapolis.

There is one.

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16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

You seem to have no issues with the context of these videos and pictures. 

No, I probably do, too.  It’s something that all of us (which does include me) should be trying to bear in mind.

16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

NONSENSE!!! Sanctuary cities are not a recent invention. They have existed since the 1980s.

Well, you’re wrong about that.  Minneapolis fully cooperated with ICE under Obama and is refusing to do so under Trump.  They always called themselves a “sanctuary city” but if you assume that means any consistent pattern of behavior then you’re wrong.

16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

I don’t think the City would dare to lie about this, as legal action can be taken against it:

“Rumors of dramatic increases in officer resignations are false. Minneapolis PD’s ranks remain stable. There have been fewer than five separations from MPD in 2026. MPD can’t comment on one’s employment decisions once separated through retirement or for other reasons.”

I believe you’re wrong about that too, but I’ll have to double-check.  Don’t ever take official Minneapolis statements about anything as gospel, though - if a Minneapolis official tells you that the sky is blue, don’t assume any such thing without double-checking.
And the Minnesota Fraternal Order of Police has condemned mayor Frey’s obstruction of federal law enforcement.

 

16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

How do we all attain these extra-sensory abilities? We see someone killed, we see muliple source coroborate it; we see the people in the chain of command lie about it. How uncritical is that?

Stop.  Remember George Floyd.

You thought you “saw” George Floyd being murdered because you didn’t see all the events leading up to him being pinned on the ground.  You didn’t see him swallowing a lethal dose of fentanyl as soon as he saw a police car and you didn’t hear him screaming “I can’t breathe” while he was still in the police car - because that information only came out later.  You saw him being pinned and screaming “I can’t breathe”, you assumed that was all the context there was to it and concluded from that assumption that what you’d seen was a murder.
That’s what everybody thought.  Some people actually paid attention to the trial and learned better later, and some didn’t.

Now, in the Alex Pretti case, you saw the video.  The city of Minneapolis doesn’t count as a source of good information (never believe them about anything) but since multiple sources have corroborated that he did die (so yes, you did see a killing) and you’ve seen what happened in the last few seconds before his death, surely you’re in command of all the facts already.  Is that about right?

So since you’re in command of all the facts already, tell me something.  Where did the first bullet come from?  There’s a string of gunshots that ends with a dead man.  Which gun shot first?
 

16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

We see someone killed, we see muliple source coroborate it; we see the people in the chain of command lie about it

And by the way, yes, the Trump administration did lie about it.  That still does not mean it was an unjustifiable shooting, let alone a murder, let alone that it’s time to rise up and throw off the yoke of our oppressors.

 

16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

But then … we should not respect our suspicions, our disgust, or our own mind. Gee, you sound like a totalitarian Ayn Rand Villain. Don’t forget to attack the evidence of our senses too. 

This is exactly what I’m talking about.

No, you should not respect invalid suspicions or invalid disgust.  Whether you should respect your own or not depends entirely on whether they’re an appropriate response to the facts of reality.
Do you have all of the facts of reality?  Would it actually be respecting your own mind to try to claim that you do?

Some people are claiming that Pretti’s gun accidentally discharged itself (which that particular model is apparently prone to do) and that he was shot because the officers had been told he had a weapon, they were struggling to restrain him and they heard a gunshot, which they assumed was from him.  Do you ACTUALLY know whether that’s true or false?


Finally, now that I’ve disrespected your suspicions and disgust, let me add one more thing.  If you saw that video and thought to yourself “wow, these ICE agents just murdered a man in front of an entire crowd of witnesses and video cameras just for fun!” and genuinely never stopped to ask if that was really what you’d just seen then your mind also deserves no respect.  Maybe it would if you tried to use it for once in your entire life.

16 hours ago, Easy Truth said:

You seem to have no issues with the context of these videos and pictures. How do we all attain these extra-sensory abilities? We see someone killed, we see muliple source coroborate it; we see the people in the chain of command lie about it. How uncritical is that? But then … we should not respect our suspicions, our disgust, or our own mind. Gee, you sound like a totalitarian Ayn Rand Villain. Don’t forget to attack the evidence of our senses too. 

On 1/30/2026 at 8:37 AM, Harrison Danneskjold said:

There are no headless cyborgs in Minneapolis.

There is one.

That AI speculation is designed to hijack the precise errors you’re making right now and make a fool of you.  If it works then you deserve it.

And by the way…

23 minutes ago, Harrison Danneskjold said:

Stop.  Remember George Floyd.

You thought you “saw” George Floyd being murdered because you didn’t see all the events leading up to him being pinned on the ground.  You didn’t see him swallowing a lethal dose of fentanyl as soon as he saw a police car and you didn’t hear him screaming “I can’t breathe” while he was still in the police car - because that information only came out later.  You saw him being pinned and screaming “I can’t breathe”, you assumed that was all the context there was to it and concluded from that assumption that what you’d seen was a murder.
That’s what everybody thought.  Some people actually paid attention to the trial and learned better later, and some didn’t.

People got hurt in those riots because everyone “knew what they saw”.  Lives were destroyed and in some cases actually ended.  People fucking died over it.

You may deserve to make a fool of yourself but in this case your errors are liable to turn my backyard into another dumpster fire yet again.  I would appreciate it if you at least stopped to double-check your own thinking before you did that.  Fucker.

Another claim that’s been made about the Pretti shooting is that an officer removed his gun from his waistband without his having touched it, and that after that officers who thought he had a gun shot him.

I hope that investigations not only clarify the details of each case, but also clarify whether ICE’s whole approach made tragedies more likely than they should have been.

 

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