So Has Anyone Got Any Advice For My Situation?

Psychology and Self Improvement
1

Basically the issue is this. I am a first year at college, and I have found another person here who is amazing, and who I am rationally happy twoards and interested in. As a person, she is someone whom I want to spend my time with so strongly.

She knows I feel this way towards her, and she does feel that way towards me, but she tells me that she does not want a relationship because of something which is so incredibly irrational. This irrationality on its own does not want to make me stop, and I am convinced it does not have to be permanant, but I have not been in an expirence like this before and any advice or thoughts would help.

This is the basis of her irrationality, as best I can determine (the numbers dont necessarily mean individual points, it just helps me to divide up the story as such)

  1. Before she came to college, she was in a strong 1 and a half year relationship which only broke up on day she got on the plane to leave her home state

  2. Unlike me, she is having difficulty detaching herself from home (partly because she recently learnt her grandmother died) and is still getting to grips with the whole “leave high school behind and start college” thing

  3. So she clealry has not completely “gotten over” her old boyfriend

  4. She has known me for almost exactly the same ammount of time she has been in college (we live in the same dorm so see each other a lot)

  5. She says that while she is attracted to me for being me, at the same time she finds that I “remind her of” her old boyfriend. I dont find this too bad (its normal to admire similar things in the people you admire) but the thing is,

  6. She thinks that since I would only be “filling a gap” in her life by taking the place of her old boyfriend, that she is afriad of “hurting me” at some point down the road because of it.

  7. And at the end of the day, her reluctance to “hurt me” because she is afriad of what may happen down the road is what is stopping her from wanting to make the commitment to a relationship.

Now, I could respect the fact that she felt she needed to get over her old boyfriend, and I didnt want to impress on her too much if she was reluctant. That would only have repelled her from me since it would suggest I was insensitive to her feelings. But for me, it is clear that this is not the way things have to be, we are so extremely compatable, we share the same feelings for each other, and her reluctance is the problem. I do not want to give up on her, I have not come across anyone else like her on the campus. If anyone has any idea on how to tackle the situation, I would be gratefull.

2
  1. Before she came to college, she was in a strong 1 and a half year relationship which only broke up on day she got on the plane to leave her home state

If this means she hasn’t reached any real closure with her previous relationship, then it may be a perfectly valid reason for her not to get involved. If she’s still emotionally invested in some other guy, I think you should wait it out, but don’t exclude other options while you’re waiting. Being the rebound guy is no fun.

  1. Unlike me, she is having difficulty detaching herself from home (partly because she recently learnt her grandmother died) and is still getting to grips with the whole “leave high school behind and start college” thing

Now, that’s a bad reason for he not to get involved. Dating is an important part of being young, and it’s a great way to build a value-base after you’ve been uprooted. Although, I would say that getting involved in a serious relationship as a bandage for homesickness is a bad idea.

  1. So she clealry has not completely “gotten over” her old boyfriend

See point #1.

  1. She has known me for almost exactly the same ammount of time she has been in college (we live in the same dorm so see each other a lot)

I don’t see what this has to do with anything? Does she think it does?

  1. She says that while she is attracted to me for being me, at the same time she finds that I “remind her of” her old boyfriend. I dont find this too bad (its normal to admire similar things in the people you admire) but the thing is,

People you date always remind you of other people you’ve dated, on both superficial (and very intimate) levels. That’s just the way things work.

  1. She thinks that since I would only be “filling a gap” in her life by taking the place of her old boyfriend, that she is afriad of “hurting me” at some point down the road because of it.

See points 1 & 2. Although, if you really like her a lot , the risk might be worth it. Never pass up pursuing a value out of fear. If you are willing to take the risk, tell her you’re aware of the risk and want to go ahead anyway, but it might not change her mind.

  1. And at the end of the day, her reluctance to “hurt me” because she is afriad of what may happen down the road is what is stopping her from wanting to make the commitment to a relationship.

As I said up there…

The best advice I can give you, in addition to the above, is to stop mincing words and just move in for the kill. Be aggressive (but not forceful), be a man, and stop telling her you like her. Show her. Pursue her like you’ve never pursued anything before, but don’t be a creepy, smothery, stalker guy. There’s a fine line between being the best friend and being the butterflies in her stomach, and there’s a fine line between being aggressive suitor and restraining order. It’s up to you to figure out where those lines are, 'cause their different for every woman.

3

I have gone through something very similar to this and all I can say is, “Don’t be blind to other people.” As much as you care for this person, is as much as you have to keep your wits about you. A girl who refuses to say ‘no’, and never really hints at ‘yes’ can lead to a kind of obsession. Especially for the rational man looking in at a indecisive young woman.

Don’t shackle yourself with hopes for future and keep your desires within the realm of the rational and understood.

4

This whole situation reminds me of cooking. It’s all a matter of what you’re willing to risk. Obviously the cake isn’t quite ready(the woman) so you can either let it cook and and get it at it’s best. But you risk letting someone else take it out of the oven before you. Or you can turn up the heat and force it out of the oven, but then you risk degraded the quality of your relationship or actually burning the other person. I would prefer to let it cook naturally. Yes I do have the possibility of losing her but at least I know for sure when she starts our relationship she will be totally committed to our relationship. And if that relationship never starts people always tend to forget just how many cake mixes there are in the cabinet.

5

This whole situation reminds me of cooking. It’s all a matter of what you’re willing to risk. Obviously the cake isn’t quite ready(the woman) so you can either let it cook and and get it at it’s best. But you risk letting someone else take it out of the oven before you. Or you can turn up the heat and force it out of the oven, but then you risk degraded the quality of your relationship or actually burning the other person. I would prefer to let it cook naturally. Yes I do have the possibility of losing her but at least I know for sure when she starts our relationship she will be totally committed to our relationship. And if that relationship never starts people always tend to forget just how many cake mixes there are in the cabinet.

There is a problem with your analogy, the cake does not have to want you for you to have your cake. “Letting her cook naturally” will almost definitely result in a loss of interest, depending on how long that takes. Also, she is not going to change her mind about the situation unless she has a reason to.

Strangelove :

Like dondigitalia said, be aggressive. Let her know (this doesn’t necessarily mean directly with words) that you are giving her a chance and if she passes it up it will be gone. This will make her go one way or the other, and if she decides she doesn’t want it, then you can move on and won’t be troubled by the situation any longer.

You are a freshman in college, the girls are still transitioning out of the high school mindset and are probably confused about what to think as far as relationships go. You can’t make her behave rationally but you can give her a clear idea of where you are coming from, and beyond that there isn’t much you can or should do.

6

The best advice I can give you, in addition to the above, is to stop mincing words and just move in for the kill. Be aggressive (but not forceful), be a man, and stop telling her you like her. Show her. Pursue her like you’ve never pursued anything before, but don’t be a creepy, smothery, stalker guy. There’s a fine line between being the best friend and being the butterflies in her stomach, and there’s a fine line between being aggressive suitor and restraining order. It’s up to you to figure out where those lines are, 'cause their different for every woman.

This is categorically the worst seriously-intended advice I have ever encountered in my entire life.

I’m almost literally speechless — and I assure you that doesn’t happen very often. What could I possibly say to someone who thinks it’s appropriate, even advisable, for a man to really step up his game and aggressively pursue a woman who has told him explicitly, no less than SEVEN TIMES, that she DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM?

What statements are coming to mind would get me banned if I expressed them, so let me just say that I strongly disagree with the above-described tactic, and roundly condemn anyone who practices it, agrees with it, or recommends it to others.

7

Strangelove,

Sounds like she’s not interested. If you heard something like, “you sorta remind me of this old boyfriend, but you COMPLETELY blow him out of the water! Wow! Can I have your number?” Then that would be different.

A common way that women drive men crazy is that when they mean “NO!” they say “well, you’re so nice, but <weak excuse>.” I know it must seem like she is saying that she would really like to if only you would convince her, but that is very very rarely the case. I won’t say categorically that she means “NO” because I’m no mind-reader, but you should at least be prepared to accept that possibility.

Also, I don’t like the sound of this:

I have not come across anyone else like her on the campus.

Well, so? Are you suffering from the common insanity that you MUST be in a relationship? If so, yuck! Your standards of who you are interested in should not be based on “who is available on campus” but rather “what do I want in a mate?”

8

I’m almost literally speechless — and I assure you that doesn’t happen very often. What could I possibly say to someone who thinks it’s appropriate, even advisable, for a man to really step up his game and aggressively pursue a woman who has told him explicitly, no less than SEVEN TIMES, that she DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM?

That’s not what I got out of it at all. What I got out of it was that the girl said she was interested in him, but her main concern was not wanting to hurt him. Of course, if there’s a firm “NO WAY!” then that advice would be ridiculous. But it seems to me (from the little information we have) that that’s not the case. Only Strangelove knows this girl, so only he has the information to really assess where this girl is coming from. She might be really interested but reluctant to move forward for whatever reason (I’ve seen this happen a lot), or she might not be interested at all and is just trying to be nice (I’ve seen this happen a lot, too).

If you don’t drop the context of the entire rest of my response, you’ll see that I advised him of the risks involved, and pointed out that it may or may not be worth the risk.

I also gave some loose criteria to determine what the risks were. That last paragraph was a last step intended to be taken after a long line of reasoning (I thought that was pretty clear). Don’t drop context; it’s bad manners.

BTW, I’ll second Inspector’s advice about not feeling like one MUST be in a relationship. I’ll also restate what I said about not excluding other possibilities because this girl is being ambiguous.

EDIT: He explicitly said that those were not seven separate points that she made. It was just the way he divided up his own thoughts on the matter.

9

As a female: it sounds very much like her “interest” in you is purely intellectual and not romantic. . . it happens sometimes when your subconscious, automatized evaluations are telling you that you don’t want a relationship with this guy. The “interest” she’s expressed is her way of trying to tell you that she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with you, she just doesn’t happen to want you.

Women will sometimes change their mind about this, but I wouldn’t bet on that outcome; her current evaluation of your personality would have to be completely incorrect for this to happen.

Generally, women know, subconsciously, exactly what they want out of a romantic relationship. We sometimes (read: often) have the devil of a time explaining what we want, either because we haven’t explicitly identified it or our conscious ideas conflict with our subconscious evaluations. We can also tell pretty quickly whether any particular guy fits into that mold.

If the reason she doesn’t want to date you is that you remind her of her old boyfriend, you probably remind her of the things she didn’t like about her old boyfriend.

Also, depending on the size of the campus you’re on, you probably know less than 1/10th of 1% of everyone that is there, so I’d just relax if I were you.

10

A common way that women drive men crazy is that when they mean “NO!” they say “well, you’re so nice, but <weak excuse>.”

True, true, true

11

I’m almost literally speechless — and I assure you that doesn’t happen very often. What could I possibly say to someone who thinks it’s appropriate, even advisable, for a man to really step up his game and aggressively pursue a woman who has told him explicitly, no less than SEVEN TIMES, that she DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM?

As has already been said above, it was not seven rejections, it was just me dividing the point up into seven bits so that it would flow more logically.

As a female: it sounds very much like her “interest” in you is purely intellectual and not romantic. . . it happens sometimes when your subconscious, automatized evaluations are telling you that you don’t want a relationship with this guy. The “interest” she’s expressed is her way of trying to tell you that she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with you, she just doesn’t happen to want you.

While I can see how that may be the case, the problem is that she was providing all the physical signs that I would interpret as being signs of acceptance. (Willingness to enter personal space, a lack of aversion of physical contact, etc.) So for me, the thought that she subconsciously would not want me, seemed to not fit what I am percieving.

And thanks for pointing out the silly idea that I “needed” to be in any relationship at all.

That’s not what I got out of it at all. What I got out of it was that the girl said she was interested in him, but her main concern was not wanting to hurt him. Of course, if there’s a firm “NO WAY!” then that advice would be ridiculous. But it seems to me (from the little information we have) that that’s not the case.

That is exactly correct, there was no forcefull rejection to the extent of “No get away from me!”.

A common way that women drive men crazy is that when they mean “NO!” they say “well, you’re so nice, but <weak excuse>.”

As I understand it from my context, was that it was not quite that, well, pathetic a response. (I percieve the “you are so nice” response as sort of a co-out) I suspect that had that really been the case, she would have then tried to indiciate for me to politely leave her, as opposed to what actually happened. We spent a good several hours together having a very open an intimate conversation which each other, except that (for lack of a better explanation) there was no sex at the end because I had respected her request not to go into a relationship and felt completely unsure as to whether to make purely sexual physical advances.

I dont want to have to get more specefic or detailed then that (I cant believe I just wrote that…) but yeah, bascially, I am convinced that she herself is the reluctant “problem” and I am inclined twoards action which was recemended earlier along the “take it or leave it” line of reasoning.

12

Why does it have to be “take it or leave it”. Why not just make it explicit that you are interested in her romantically and if she can’t reciprocate right now that she can come talk to you when she is ready, assuming that you are still available at that time? Or maybe even if you’re not.

13

That’s not what I got out of it at all. What I got out of it was that the girl said she was interested in him, but her main concern was not wanting to hurt him. Of course, if there’s a firm “NO WAY!” then that advice would be ridiculous. But it seems to me (from the little information we have) that that’s not the case.

That is exactly correct, there was no forcefull rejection to the extent of “No get away from me!”.

With all due respect, Strangelove, both you and dondigitalia are quite pathetically naive when it comes to women.

No woman is EVER going to reject you by saying “No way!” or “Get away from me!” — not unless you’re practically trying to rape her. Unfortunately, an awful lot of guys will interpret anything less than a “forceful rejection” from a woman as practically an open invitation to continue the pursuit.

As I’ve written many times on these boards, one of the most basic things a man has got to learn if he intends to be successful with women — i.e., if he intends to be a source of joy in a woman’s life, rather than a painful and perennial thorn in her side — is that women do not reject men directly. There is always some reason, some excuse offered. It’s never you, it’s always her. It’s circumstances. She’d really love to go out with you on that particular night, but she’s busy. (She does not, however, suggest going out on another night.) She’d love to pursue a romantic relationship with you, but she just can’t — she’s having family issues, or she’s much too consumed with school, or she’s still not “over” her last boyfriend. (Actually, she was well over the guy a good three weeks before she dumped him.)

Guys, take the freakin’ hint when women talk to you this way. They’re trying to be nice to you. They’re trying to let you down easy. Believe it or not, women have pretty much the same basic emotional responses that men do. If a woman is genuinely attracted to you, she wants to be with you. She will actually go out with you when you ask her out on a date. She never gives excuses. She doesn’t have to concoct multi-point “explanations” as to why she can’t have a relationship with you. After all: 1.) She really wants to be in a relationship with you, or at least is interested in exploring that possibility, and 2.) Had she truly not been interested, she would have had many easy opportunities to reject you, long before there were any confessions of feelings and serious talk of a relationship.

What every man needs to look for in a woman, ahead of any other virtues, traits or characteristics, is romantic interest _ in him _. Your feelings mean nothing; if she’s not feeling it for you, no relationship is possible, regardless of how crazy you might be about her. The problem is that most guys are solipsists in romantic love; they only focus on the intensity of their own feelings, and are notoriously oblivious to the emotional signals of a woman. Worst of all, guys will actually project their feelings onto a woman that they like — they assume, sans any strong evidence, and often despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary, that she feels the same way he does. She must feel the same way; the potentiality of such powerful emotions not being reciprocated is simply too terrible a reality to acknowledge or accept.

If a man can learn to be sensitive and objective when it comes to women, if he can avoid trying to psychoanalyze a woman when he encounters “mixed messages” — if he would learn to interpret all reticence, confusion, weirdness, contradictions, excuses, explanations, broken dates, and (ahem) explicit statements from a woman that she does not want to be a relationship with him as extremely bad signs, and as solid, airtight reasons to cease and desist all further pursuit of her, then he would immediately be ahead of 99.9% of his miserably clueless and pain-wracked brethren, and well on his way to becoming a truly aware, successful, ROMANTIC man.

P.S. I was in error in my previous post: Re-reading the first message, I now only count five rejections or reasons for not wanting to be in a relationship with him, not seven as previously stated. I stand humbly corrected.

14

With all due respect, Strangelove, both you and dondigitalia are quite pathetically naive when it comes to women.

I dont know about dondigitalia, but I would not argue otherwise.

15

With all due respect, Strangelove, both you and dondigitalia are quite pathetically naive when it comes to women.

You know, I don’t think you’re really qualified to make that assertion about me, considering that we’ve never met. My experience tells me differently, and I’m hardly a young pup, in any respect. That’s really all I have to say on the subject. Think what you want. I stand by everything I’ve said thus far.

16

Strangelove:

There are a few things you’ve got to understand.

  1. The girl has just made a major life change by leaving behind her old life to come to college. For some people (girls in particular) that is hard to do. On top of that you are asking her to make another big change in the midst of her getting used to college life.

  2. It sounds like this is the first girl you’ve ever had a romantic interest in since coming to college. There are a lot of other girls out there that may be even more compatible with you than this one.

So given those two points, my advice to you is to just give the girl a little room. She may like you very much but before she’s ready to start a relationship she is going to have to get used to this whole college thing. So it’s possible that given enough time, she might be ready to start a relationship. But it’s also very possible (and more likely than not) that she will end up never wanting a relationship with you.

Just be her friend for a while. Back off and give her some time to get over her old life. At the same time, go out and try to meet other girls. You might get together with her after a while (but to be brutally honest it doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen) or you might find someone else.

17

Strangelove, it sounds like you’re crazy about this girl, but she is either 1) not interested in you romantically and trying to let you down easy as Kevin suggested, 2) afraid of hurting you or herself by getting involved in a relationship only to have it come to an end because she is on the rebound, or 3) not ready for a relationship at all due to the other circumstances in her life.

She doesn’t want to date you right now. Things might change, but right now she can’t be forced to be ready. Also, you have only known her a little over two months. It takes a long time to really get to know someone. Longer than two months!

You see this girl all the time, so I assume you will remain friends, right? After all, you live in the same dorm. Give her some space and let her come to you. If she wants to, she will. It’s hard, but you have to try to let go of these thoughts of you and her together, for the time being, at least.

18

Just let her be, Strangelove. It sounds like you might have developed an unhealthy dependence on this person through your possible picturing of you and her together and such. Relationships are two-way streets, so don’t try driving into on-coming traffic in an effort to get to her and tow her down her street toward your direction.

19

You’ve got to keep the whole of your life in mind with any decision you make that can alter it, and evaluate its effects.

You are in college. You are not yet in a career, you don’t yet know what sort of person you will be as an adult. You think you do, but you don’t. What sort of career will make you wake up in the morning and say “Hot damn, I get to go to work today!” What sort of house do you want? Do you want kids? Where in the world do you want to live? Will you still answer the same way when you’re 30? How do you know?

Until you know what your life is going to be like, its impossible for you to guarantee any sort of romantic stability to any relationship. There is value in dating and learning, and thinking about relationships that you can take forward with you when you will be ready for a permanent one.

But introspect on it and you will know that any relationship you start now will only be permanent by coincidence or evasion, and then start focusing the majority of your energy on what you’re in college for: getting your career picked out and on track. Date if you like, but don’t spend so much effort on it that it will have long-term affects on your education and your career.

Self-identify what you are honestly, and act accordingly. If you do that, relationship bliss will come, but it won’t be soon.

20

You know, I don’t think you’re really qualified to make that assertion about me, considering that we’ve never met. My experience tells me differently, and I’m hardly a young pup, in any respect. That’s really all I have to say on the subject. Think what you want. I stand by everything I’ve said thus far.

Kevin, like everyone, gets irritated when he has to say the same things over and over again, Dave, I’m sure he didn’t intend his somewhat vicious statement quite the way it came out.

Other than that, he’s right though. Sure, women love to be pursued, but you have to do it before you declare yourself or request that she make a decision. Telling her you want a relationship forces her to assemble all the evidence she has on you make some sort of determination. You can’t ask her whether she thinks she might want a relationship, either, because that’s an attempt to have your cake and eat it, too . . . to find out what her determination is without having to accept it if the answer is “no”. That doesn’t fly. When you force her to examine what, if anything, she feels for you and whether she thinks those feelings are wise and correct her determination is essentially final. One of three things has to happen for her to change her mind: YOU have to change dramatically, SHE has to change dramatically, or the SITUATION has to change dramatically. Otherwise, you’re stuck, this train is going nowhere.

If you are going to pursue a woman DON’T TELL HER you have feelings for her right off the bat. Heck, you don’t have to tell her anything unless she asks. Just act the way she makes you feel and let her figure it out. Women love to try to figure out what men are thinking, it’s like a sport with us.

I really do think that to get a woman engaged in the “pursuit” part of a relationship you have to be somewhat ambiguous. Not hugely, but enough that she has to think about your relationship to her in conscious terms, to keep turning it over in her mind, to stay alert for nuances, etc. You pay attention to the unusual and the exceptional . . . to draw her attention to your good qualities you need to be reserved most of the time and demonstrate them abruptly and thoroughly when it’s appropriate.

Men, you have to let your subconscious be your guide. Don’t sit down and think, “is this the right time for flowers? Too soon? Too outspoken?” Think, do I want to give her flowers? If you do, it will feel, to you, that it’s exactly the right time and that will make it the right time because you’ll be comfortable with it.