Do you accept the possibility that your ideas might lead to harm in this area, and that her ideas might not merely be a difference of opinion, but actually be right?
If he does, then he’s daft. His friend is so wrong it hurts.
If he does, then he’s daft. His friend is so wrong it hurts.
Yes, but she thinks that he is wrong. We’re not advocates of tolerance, why should we expect the commies to say “hey, you Objectivists might be right!” Seems kind of backwards to me.
Cogito, if you hang out with people that have bad ideas, they’re going to say things that will make you grind your teeth. There’s nothing wrong with associating with people that have bad ideas as long as you don’t grant your support TO their bad ideas: say “I don’t agree” and leave it at that. If they want to hear more, they’ll ask you.
It can be difficult because it seems like you’re being indifferent to your ideas by not proselytizing: you’re not, you are being indifferent to the person that has the bad ideas.
The problem is, every once in a while I find myself getting into an ethical or political debate that brings out the pure irrationality in people, and it sours my mood for the rest of the day and I become completely uncivil and take it out on people not involved.
So the problem is that it brings out the irrationality in other people?
My guess: I think you’re frustrated because you feel like you didn’t make a good showing, not because the other person disagreed with you. There’s something left fuzzy or untangled, and you feel like the debate made things more fuzzy and tangled, not less. You don’t feel like you got to say what you really wanted to say. You spent a lot of time talking at cross-purposes with someone who you value enough to spend time with, and that was naturally frusterating.
As an example, tonight I saw the movie Blood Diamonds with a friend. On the way home, she mentioned how she wanted to join the peace corps, and we got into a big debate about whether or not it helps. Now, I personally think an organization that gives more to people the worse they are is only furthering the problem, and she is convinced that peace corps and similar organizations are the only way to solve the problem.
I am not privy to the context, but I think you didn’t define the question well enough to have a fruitful debate. “[W]hether or not it helps”–helps what? And what is “the problem” which is either being furthered or solved? If you are trying to debate whether nations with Peace Corps activity are generally helped or hurt by it, you have put yourself in a tough position. You’d have to explain away or dismiss every concrete instance where the Peace Corps did bring some measure of literacy or health to a region. You’d also have to establish that the Peace Corps does give more to people the worse they are. Unless you’ve already read up on it in detail to make that specific point, it’s not something you can do.
Now, I can understand a difference of opinion, but when we debated she dismissed my ideas as unrealistic and used the “life’s not that simple” card, and refused to accept the posibility that her ideas might lead to harm in the area.
I’m not sure it’s fair to say she refused to accept that possibility. You were saying that the Peace Corps makes problems worse. Not “might” make them worse. And if you didn’t have the concretes to back up your ideas, they’re going to get dismissed unless you’re talking to a person who already shares them. It’s never pleasant to feel dismissed.
Since then, I’ve been moody, snapped at both my parents and a few of my friends, and am in general feeling like shit. I hate that this bothers me so much, and I hate having this issue over and over again… In fact, if I’m not in a good mood you can almost be sure it is because of this issue. Any thoughts are greatly apreciated.
I think you should go back to this friend and say something along these lines: “I owe you an apology. We went out to see a movie, and then you talked about the Peace Corps. I get angry because sometimes these helping organizations cause a lot of damage to real human lives, but it seems like everybody cuts them slack because of their ‘good intentions.’ But you were talking about something you wanted to do in the future. I let my opinions about humanitarian organizations in general get in the way of asking about your specific plans. What are they?” She’s feeling dismissed right now, just like you are. She was expecting some interest and approval. You don’t have to approve, but if you call her a friend, you owe it to both of you to dig further before you try to tell her she’s doing the wrong thing.
She may even surprise you with something interesting.
–Schefflera
“I owe you an apology. We went out to see a movie, and then you talked about the Peace Corps. I get angry because sometimes these helping organizations cause a lot of damage to real human lives, but it seems like everybody cuts them slack because of their ‘good intentions.’ But you were talking about something you wanted to do in the future. I let my opinions about humanitarian organizations in general get in the way of asking about your specific plans. What are they?”
Very, very nice 
Well, I think you are misinterpreting Rand and Peikoff’s quotations.
People’s vices count, and some vices are big enough to wipe out any virtues someone may otherwise possess.
What I said wasn’t intended to stand alone, outside of the context of the quote. You could take the statement I extrapolated from, by Peikoff, out of context and it would be face the same problem.