Sante

sorry guys ....i have to admit that this was a bad topic. I'll try to make a better contribution next time.

I totally agree that dishonesty with your partner is wrong. I wanted to know if anyone thought that there was something wrong with loving 2 different individuals and wanting to have sexual relationships with both. So you're saying that it's moral if both individuals are aware of the situation and give their consent?

What if your girlfriend is great and the relationship is working, but she lacks certain characteristics that you value. For example, by all accounts Ayn Rand loved her husband very much, but she cheated on him because he could not provide the level of intellectual characteristics she valued (I may be wrong-correct me if I am). Can you love two people romantically? Is it moral to have a sexual relationship with someone other than your girlfriend? Would discussing the situation with your girlfriend and change anything? I think it is difficult to stay committed to one person when there are a lot of other people you can experience love with and share values.

thanks source. thats all I really wanted to know.

thanks, I totally understand that I was way off base. I was getting ahead of myself .

Well if there is no reasonable alternative to vote for what do we do? Refuse to vote? or vote non-confidence? I'm aware that I'm free to leave the country, but isnt that just plain avoidance? Why should i concede my rights?

Ok, I understand the difference now. But what about using force to overthrow the government. If they are using force against us, why can't we use force in retaliation? What's the plan of the objectivists? You want this idealized society, but I havent read any specific plan. How can we make a big enough impact?

One more point. Since the government is using force and other dispicable methods of parasitism, why is it not moral to use force againt them in self-defence of our freedom to live?

I understand your point, but don't you think that Rand presented in a way that suggested that one must live by her methods or humanity would be doomed? Also, in Atlas don't you think that the "producers" strike sort of parellels the illuminati intentions of tearing down the system and then rebuilding it? Do you think that the implimentation of a pure Capitalist system will be accomplished with no force at all? Excuse me if I seem a little ignorant...I'm still learning Objectivism and questioning its validity.

But don't Objectivists do the same thing? Through lectures and literature Rand is telling the masses how they must live.

Fair enough. I just thought it was interesting.

"So, until such time when we have a society worthy of liberty, capable and willing to be responsible for their actions and well being; if responsibility is ignored it will have to be imposed." I missed that part. I guess he's implying the use of force.

But is there an illuminati? And what is their real agenda?

There are different views concerning the illuminati. Some say it is a grand conspiracy to enslave people under a fascist regime. Others say that the illuminati are objectivists who advocate freedom, capatalism, and right to happiness (very similar to objectivism). I found this article that explains the illuminati order. http://www.heart7.net/illuminati-order.html . Is it an accurate reflection? The article supports objectivism , but states that it has been hijacked by Randists.