US12345

I believe that there is no existence without meaning...it doesn't I was just looking for a forum to chat in with people who had different ideas then mine had intelligence and might one day see some of what I believe in i g2g but ill be back later to continue this

No our concsiousness is what gives meaning to the world... the meaning stems from love which is the key element of our consciousness

the consciousness that love and the moral code giv us no because it is not a fundamental desire like Hunger or Thirst. I am sure you have heard stories about this desire. And if you allow it I am sure you will find it in time You just said the burden of proof was on me to disprove the gremlins. YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF:: SEE THE BURDEN IS ON YOU TO DISPROVE GOD. In terms of sleep no, I am not talking about being awake but in death yes

yes but god is a consciousness entirely separate from that No if you look back i am not trying to prove god whatsoever through that thought process...merely stating that i do not belief reality can exist without consciousness Fly to Venus until then use your experiences to make a rational descion if you believe there are by all means go ahead

I am agreeing on that point. What I am saying is that how would you know what happens if there wasn't any consciousness. I was simply asking how he new the world was created before there was consciousness

Yes but there is still consciousness in the world, or universe I should say... And how are you proving this. I could say the big bang was perpetuated by god thus he was a consciousness.

Time is an energy in the natural world. God is in the supernatural. They are on two different planes. So conciousness and existence both exist now. That is a fact you can't refute. It could be one way but it isn't. And how do you now that the world would continue to exist. Prove it. O wait you can't because there is no consciousness. again natural versus supernatural and the bible at least to me is not to be taken literally. So what physical laws are you talking about. The gateways are love, the moral code and the fundamental desire for God. In answer to the last one, you cannot contradict that yet because you have yet to truly step away from every day life and feel that desire

The point remains that if there was no consciousness than it would have no relevance. And another point, your telling me that things don't stem from Consciousness. Well how about significance. If there was no consciousness then there would be no relevance to that and if there was no consciousness than there would be no one to make this ridiculous point. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE AT LEAST ATTEMPT TO ATTACK SOME OF MY THEORIES OR CAN'T THEY BE ATTACKED BECAUSE THEY JUST CAN'T

On closer inspection of your argument it amounts to God doesn't exist because I don't believe he exists. It seems to me that that is the negative. You are laughable in your attempts to deny it. No, no, he is a negative so I SWEAR he doesn't exist. But on a lighter note, I would suggest taking 3 days and going into the woods and sit there. For three days. No book. No distractions. Only food and a tent. That is one way I have heard and experienced you can really begin to find the desire for God. WHY IS IT IGNORANT?? Prove it is not a fundamental desire. Do you honestly believe there isn't something special about love. Can you actually refute ANY part of my argument with actual proof. I mean come on now. You really are just saying it is not a fundamental desire because I don't want it to be. Please step your arguments up.

No I merely asked you to consider it with an open mind and use your reason. A few questions: why is god a negative, and why is the burden of proof on us. You can only explain the supernatural with the natural by showing the gateways into which it enters out lives. The answer to what our soul is, is that it is where the moral code and thus love resides. It is the essence of what makes us human:: the love and relationships we all have.

I said that love is the essence of all things moral. Morality is not relative, Ayn Rand said so herself, God resides there. I then explained why he would reside there. He represents morality. I said animals appear to show moral codes at time but with humans it is universal, thus indicating a common moral base. You have not addressed any other of the key components and have taken things out of context as well as skipping over very pertinent parts. I would suggest you open your mind, read this again and focus on line 2. Could you possibly point out what exactly I have renamed. Another point you might want to consider is how can you say there is no God if you don't have any proof of his NOT existing, it kind of contradicts a key point in American Government which you profess to love so much:: innocent until proven guilty. When did I say that the soul was different from the human being. It is one and the same. The soul is just the name for what moves on. Enlighten me why is that a "Conscious Fallacy"

God exists, and not in the illusionary or fantasy oriented notion originally presented by the first author on this topic. Before I begin let us take into account Ayn Rand's dedication to the individual mind and the power it holds. She believed that anything can be deciphered, understood, explained by that which gives us our power. And she was right. Now, look at God in a different light. Picture him not as a supreme king who sits on his high throne issuing commands from heaven, but rather call up the images of your most powerful and meaningful relationships. The key facet there is love. And love is the key to God. That love for one another is exactly where God is coming from, he resides in the place where evil cannot touch. It is the perfect place for what we define as heaven. Evil automatically cannot enter, and it is not something that can be bought stolen or broken. One dies, and that love is still there. Love is the most important thing in life, Ayn Rand declared it herself in a more subtle way. What was the driving force she proclaimed that Henry Rearden pursued Dagny and his metal. Was it not love. This mystical force that when confronted with in person, face to face, and sweeps us off our feet fills us with feelings that are almost supernatural. Love is God's crowning achievement and is his essence, but now let us turn to another few statements that may put this in a perspective. What you are about to hear will no doubt incite numerous denials and utter rejections from many of you. But though you may reject and discard of it now, I urge you to wait, for you cannot respond to this question until you have competed your turn here on earth. Everyone and I mean everyone has a desire for a God. Look at every single culture throughout history. And then look at the ones that have survived the longest. Islam, Christianity and Judaism. I believe that the evolution of faith has come as God began to spread throughout the many different cultures all centering on these three. And these three share the same God. If you trace the Koran and the Bible back you will see where the divergence of the two faiths occurred. Is it not interesting to note that these religions all share the EXACT same god. But back to this belief that everyone has a desire for a God (something else that binds together all of us. By the way notice bind{a relationship perhaps}.), be patient you will see. When this desire hits you it will feel very fundamental, as if it was actually a part of your being. It is like hunger or a thirst, wait, be patient. And if you look around you, you will see that every other fundamental desire has fulfillment. Hunger, sex, thirst, love etc.. Now why should this desire for a God not have fulfillment as well. Again, wait, be patient, it will come. Now Ayn Rand said herself that truth was not relative. Their are absolutes of good and evil. This could be termed as a moral code. So according to her philosophy it exists in everyone. Now animals don't have that same code. They at times exhibit semblance of this but not to any real extent. So this distinction because it forms the basis of what could be called the soul. This relates to love because love can only exist if one follows this moral code. Of which love is the key component. So it comes full circle, love dictates this code and thus love can only exist if one follows the moral way. Now Ayn Rand's main issue with God was that he dictated thoughts. But that is where free will enters. We can use our mind and thus our power to do whatever we want. So we can act morally or not. There are gray areas for sure, but the key judge of what is right and wrong is whether love is in the spectrum. Did you act with love or not. Though only a brief overview of my thoughts on God (The Desire for God aspect is adapted from C.S. Lewis), I welcome any thoughts and desire to hear the entirety of my ideas.