Ayn Rand's "Ideal"

[intellectualammo]

I was just looking at this, which is the Collectors Edition of "Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life" film. I have only watched the video of it before, but not the DVD or this collectors DVD. I really would like to see the filmed version of Ayn Rand's "Ideal", from "The Early Ayn Rand". Anyone watch it? What did you think of it?

[Gabo]

I was just looking at this, which is the Collectors Edition of "Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life" film. I have only watched the video of it before, but not the DVD or this collectors DVD. I really would like to see the filmed version of Ayn Rand's "Ideal", from "The Early Ayn Rand". Anyone watch it? What did you think of it?

I didn't even know that it had ever been filmed. Has anybody got information regarding this?

[intellectualammo]

I didn't even know that it had ever been filmed. Has anybody got information regarding this?

Well, I found this, which says that the director of that adaptation of Ayn Rand's "Ideal" is also the director of the "Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life" whose name is Michael Paxton.

"Ideal" was never performed until 1989 in Hollywood, CA. I am not sure if any of the footage was on the DVD, but apparently all of it is on the Collector's Edition one I linked to, which is called the Director's Vision Edition.

[Gabo]

Well, I found this, which says that the director of that adaptation of Ayn Rand's "Ideal" is also the director of the "Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life" whose name is Michael Paxton.

"Ideal" was never performed until 1989 in Hollywood, CA. I am not sure if any of the footage was on the DVD, but apparently all of it is on the Collector's Edition one I linked to, which is called the Director's Vision Edition.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. I'm glad that somebody produced Ideal, it's a great play. Wonder if we'll see a production of Think Twice someday?

[UptonStellington]

Wow. whaddya know? I just found my copy of the Director's Vision of A Sense of Life. I'll check out Ideal -- its apparently only still shots from the play, though. Or so it says on the cover.

[intellectualammo]

Wow. whaddya know? I just found my copy of the Director's Vision of A Sense of Life. I'll check out Ideal -- its apparently only still shots from the play, though. Or so it says on the cover.

Yeah, there are supposed to be stills in it, and in the DVD before this directors one, but the bonus material one the second disc, is supposed to contain the complete filmed version of Ideal. Please, let us know when you check it out. Oh man!, you'll get to watch the scene where Kay Gonda is at Johnnie Dawes place before I get too!! I just picked up a copy of The Early Ayn Rand from the library and am reading it all over again. I started with Ideal first though. I had totally forgotten, or not read it so closely before, so that some parts of it are brand new to me again. Which is a good thing in a way, but not in another. I'd really enjoy watching said scene performed.

[UptonStellington]

WOW... I've had this Director's Cut of the DVD sitting here for over a year now and just never bothered to watch the play -- I didn't actually know there was a whole play on here until I saw this thread.

So I checked it out, and, I don't know if somebody mentioned this, but it's the film version of a play (or maybe just a filmed play? -- although the quality looks too good for that).

In short, plays really aren't my thing, but it was nonetheless very interesting to watch. Peikoff, in the intro, describes Kay Gonda as a predecessor to Dominique, and it's amazing to see that character in action.

It's interesting to see her go through 4 or so different types of people, all of whom seem to represent archetypes of the sort of person Rand despised, and to get to Johnnie Dawes.

[intellectualammo]

WOW... I've had this Director's Cut of the DVD sitting here for over a year now and just never bothered to watch the play -- I didn't actually know there was a whole play on here until I saw this thread.

Glad I posted it then!

In short, plays really aren't my thing, but it was nonetheless very interesting to watch. Peikoff, in the intro, describes Kay Gonda as a predecessor to Dominique, and it's amazing to see that character in action.

He also says in the introduction to Ideal in my library copy The Early Ayn Rand (1984 ed.) that the:

effect was untypical of Ayn Rand: a story written approvingly from Dominique's initial viewpoint.

Undoubtedly, the intensity of Miss Rand's personal struggle at the time - her intellectual and professional struggle against a seeemingly deaf, even hostile culture - helps to account for the play's approach.

It's interesting to see her go through 4 or so different types of people, all of whom seem to represent archetypes of the sort of person Rand despised, and to get to Johnnie Dawes.

And that's exactly what I wanted to see! Peikoff says this in the same intro to the same book ed.:

Johnny's final action is action - that is the whole point - action to protect the ideal, as against empty words or dreams. His idealism, therefore is genuine, and Kay Gonda's search end's on a positive note. In this repect, even Ideal may be regarded as an affirmation (albeit in an unusual form) of the benevolent universe premise.

Oh! I will be rereading this scene again tonight! By the way, if you have read Ideal, how close is the filmed version of this scene to the screenplay (dialogue/action wise)?

[UptonStellington]

Ah unfortunately, I cannot say that I HAVE read Ideal. I just found out about it from this thread.

And yes, Peikoff makes that same remark in the intro, about it being untypical of Rand to cast this attitude in a positive light. That's probably the one thing I disliked about it (other than it being a play, which I mentioned).

All in all, though, although I doubt this would ever happen, knowing what occurred during production of The Fountainhead movie, it would be cool to see this story expanded and made into a movie, in the film noir style.

On that note -- have you seen The Fountainhead? I'm interested in watching it, although I doubt they'd carry it at Blockbuster...

OH! Also (this is a long-shot) -- in watching the "Sense of Life," during the first half of the film, when they are talking about creativity or something, they show some paintings that look to be of the renaissance. Do you know if there are any art credits for the film?

[intellectualammo]

Ah unfortunately, I cannot say that I HAVE read Ideal. I just found out about it from this thread.

I'm glad Peikoff had chosen to publish these for us to read, and those that haven't read them, should consider doing so, even if they are saving them so that they always have some Rand left to read...

On that note -- have you seen The Fountainhead? I'm interested in watching it, although I doubt they'd carry it at Blockbuster...

Yes, I have watched it on video a while ago. I think that Patricia Neal made an excellent Dominique! I've always had a tough time understanding her character...but in the film, seeing her, definitely helped some.

OH! Also (this is a long-shot) -- in watching the "Sense of Life," during the first half of the film, when they are talking about creativity or something, they show some paintings that look to be of the renaissance. Do you know if there are any art credits for the film?

That I don't know. I don't remember exactly what paintings were shown, but if I saw them I probably would recognize them, and be able to identify the artist. So your inquiry I don't think is a long shot at all...she's commented on paintings in her writings and they were probably shots of them.

Edited December 27, 2007 by intellectualammo

[~Sophia~]

I think that Patricia Neal made an excellent Dominique! I've always had a tough time understanding her character...but in the film, seeing her, definitely helped some.

Personally, I was not impressed with the movie. To me the actors lacked the subtlety required. Instead of grandiose I experienced them to be over the top stiff and aloof. (compare that to Pierce Brosnan's performance in Thomas Crown Affair, Russell Crowe's in Gladiator, Lena Headey's in 300).

[intellectualammo]

Personally, I was not impressed with the movie.

Hi Sophia, yes, I would agree with that overall. Dom is my favorite in this film, acting wise, but she isn't in the book...

To me the actors lacked the subtlety required. Instead of grandiose I experienced them to be over the top stiff and aloof.

If I am understanding you correctly, I would agree with that with Cooper, like for instance this scene from the movie where Dom hits him with the crop:

He acted quite stiff in when he said, "...or did it Miss Francon?" I think he should have said it differently, with more emphasis on that part of it, and a facial expression, like a grin of some sort. Is that what you mean by "over the top stiff"? That's what I think of it as, I'm sure there are better examples, though. I think that Dom at times was a bit exaggerated, purposely, for extra emphasis, sort of like how they do it on stage at a play, so that the audience can pick up on it, but I think it was necessary for the most part, and that is precisely how I was able to understand her character more. She's complicated, to me, and this acting and directing on her part and the films part, sooo helped me to understand her more. I also learned a hell of a lot about her and The Fountainhead in general, from Mimpy's posts and replies in other threads here on the forum.