The power of environmental groups

[aequalsa]

Do you have a better sample? Perhaps in your travels you have personally encountered such politicians, which would be interesting to hear about.

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You would have to provide evidence that most or all are not sincere, if that is the claim you are making.

You might misunderstand my meaning. Those are not claims that I am making. They were possibilities I was providing to help rectify the contradiction between the reality of our increasingly socialist/fascist country and your claim that they are sincere in their beliefs. Which leaves the third option I provided...that they are sincere in their beliefs that stealing my money to help others is the right course of action and are perhaps completely unaware of how often socialist policies end in failure at best or often times horror at worst.

I would have guessed you were simply taken in by their personal charisma, but I truly have no way of knowing how good a judge of character you are, which is why I provided all of the reasons why your view here does not correspond to reality in that if a majority(or really even a significant minority) were in fact sincere and honest in their intentions and studies, then they could not come to the conclusion that socialism was the proper approach to anything.

I'm just a small business owner with little to do with politics outside of discussions with friends and voting. The letters I have sent to most regarding particular policies are mostly answered with form letters which half the time seem to believe that I hold the opposite view that I held in my letter. The only office holder I have had personal contact with is my own US representative when he tried to convince me to vote for a mutibillion dollar tax hike "to save our schools and roads," and a billion dollar bond to build a light rail I would never use which would cost me personally $100/ year in interest on the debt. Intellectually, he was unimpressive and had no moral basis for his beliefs, even when I pressed him. He was friendly though. Sorta like everybody's favorite uncle at the family reunion picnic. Was he sincere? Possibly. Did he know someone involved in the contract to build the lightrail which is now estimated to cost over double the original estimate? Probably. Was he an honest intellectual? Absolutely not.

I realize of course they are going to be more responsive to you as a journalist since good press is harder to take by force of arms then my money is, so I do take you at your word that they come across as sincere and interested to you. I doubt that many would have the same conversations with me, so I apologize for my lack of direct contact with my representatives. What I am left with is their actions. They continue to socialize my country and on a pretty consistent basis are caught with their hands in the cookie jar. LBJ I already mentioned. The Clinton's and Mccain both seem to have been involved in the S&L bank robbery in the 80's along with quite a few others. Cheney just happened to be on the board of directors for Haliburton which just happened to get billions of dollars to rebuild Iraq which just happened to get in trouble for misappropriating funds. These are off the top of my head and I am sure you or I could find plenty more ways in which politicians manage to squeek by economically.

Who is the "they" you are referring too? Are you saying you have never met one economist, or someone "somewhat familiar with economic history", that has not been an Objectivist or hard core libertarian? Interesting. Your circle of contacts is either peculiarly limited, or there are a hell of a lot more libertarians and Objectivists out there than I thought.

Not an honest one. There are, incidentally, quite a few more people out here that are that way. My point is that if they do come to those conclusions, self-delusion or laziness in investigation are the only explanations I can come up with as to how they can believe that socialism works.

You should check the salary for state senate and state house positions. Far more politicians serve in such lesser positions and make not very much money, and don't get big bucks for 1 hour speeches. As for the lobbying jobs, I wonder why more congress people don't cash in sooner then. Why do they keep running for office? Levin, since I mentioned him earlier, has been in the senate since 1979. What is he waiting for?

Every one has to apprentice in their careers to move up. The good ones will make it to the federal level eventually. Also, it seems very common for them to have secondary streams of income while they are connected.

$169k is not chump change, but it is not a fortune compared to the wealth of lobbyists, businesspeople and special interests folks they deal with. $169k doesn't go as far in Washington as in Topeka, either.

It puts them in the top 2% of income earners, slightly above doctors at $150k. I don't think that's bad at all. Also their income doesn't tell the whole story. Net worth growth is far more important. Consider this:

"Sen. Hillary Clinton's average net worth, adjusted for inflation, grew from negative $6 million to $30.7 million between 2000 and 2006"-

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/ele...0513wealth.html

That is pretty amazing return on investment since she could only contribute about $600K, total, from her $169k salary. Perhaps she is just a wise investor. At a what, 50% return on investment, Warren Buffet with his measly 23% as the most successful investor of all time ought to be taking classes from her. With numbers like this You simply must understand my doubts about their sincerity, regardless of how they seem in person.

edit: I forgot to answer your question about the "they" I was referring to. I meant that majority of office holders that continue to vote for socialist policies. It changes from vote to vote slightly I am sure.

Edited June 28, 2008 by aequalsa

[Erik Christensen]

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