Can an Objectivist also be ethnically Jewish?

[Leonid]

Tomar

You are barking on the wrong tree. Nobody argues here in favor of tribalism. However ethnicity exists and ethnic culture also exists. It includes common language, history and common origin. Religion could or could not be part of ethnic values. Judaism without any doubts defined Jewish culture over millenniums, but that doesn't mean that belief in God is a defining feature of Jew. Even in ancient times there were Jews, some of them prominent scholars of Judaism, who openly proclaimed their atheism. The Hebrew word " Epicores" originated from the name of Greek philosopher Epicurus had been created especially for them. Tradition is not mystical but empirical morality which religion may adopt and canonize. There is nothing mystical about washing hands before meals. This tradition probably saved many lives in ancient times and this is most probably the reason why Judaism ritualized this custom- to support it with divine authority, the only authority which ancient Hebrews recognized.

I claim that current definition of Jew is not religious but ethnic one. To be a Jew is simple biological fact, an "accident" of birth. It doesn't mean that such a person has to believe in Jewish God or even to adopt Jewish culture. However I think that Jewish cultural values are rich and worth of adoption.( not all) For example, one of them is concept of freedom, which emerged about 3320 years ago first time in the course of human history among ancient Hebrews, who allegedly had been enslaved in Egypt. It doesn't matter that the whole story could probably be a myth; Moses' words " Let my people go" still reverberate across time and space and inspire others to fight for their freedom. The Pesach, Pass-over was the first Independence Day in human history. In this occasion I wish you Pesach sameach. There are many other Jewish values which every Objectivist can adopt without any hesitation-like justice ( tzedek, tzedek tirdof), peace, benevolence, honesty, self-reliance, reason etc... Many values,which initially originated in Jewish culture became universal moral values-like golden rule of rabbi Hilel-"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow."

There is no problem for Objectivist to be a Jew and to accept some Jewish cultural values.The problem started only when cultural values clash with universal values. In such a case universal values should prevail.

Zionism.

Incidentally you are wrong about Zionism. Ayn Rand one mentioned that she is a Jewess only when she faces an anti-Semite.

Anti-Semitism unfortunately is not going to disappear in the thin air. It's alive and kicking and going stronger.

Zionism emerged as a response to the prosecution of Jews. The 2000 years of Jewish martyrdom, non-stop slaughter by almost everybody-from Roman legions to Russian Cossacks brought up an idea that in order to survive Jews need the protective power of their own state. Israel has been created as a shelter to any Jew. Zionism is not ethnic but political movement of Jewish liberation. If Israel had been created before WWII, 6 millions Jews could have been saved from Holocaust. There is no doubt that Zionism has historical, religious and ethnic components,but essentially it is a secular political movement which created a state to fulfill its the only legitimate function-the protection of its citizens. Hardly a philosophical mistake. Observe that Israel as a state provides protection not only to Jews, but to every body, regardless religion or ethnicity. The collectivism of Israeli society is not a consequence of Zionist philosophy per se, but rather left-overs from the East-European Socialism, and they, as I observed, are fading quickly. Collectivism as such also is not a feature of Jewish cultural heritage. Again rabbi Hillel springs to the mind ""If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?"

You can't be more Objectivist then that.

In conclusion, my answer is : Yes, Obectivist can be a good secular Jew and good Jews make exceptionally good Objectivists.

Hag sameach

Edited April 16, 2011 by Leonid

[Leonid]

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[DrJJ]

On 8/3/2006 at 6:19 PM, PeterSmith said:

This cannot be an explanation because the top Objectivists were not Ayn Rand's friends before she founded Objectivism.

 

 

 

Interesting. Can you give an example of another such ideology?

 

 

 

Yes there is a hierarchy because some of the Objectivists have spent a lot more time and effort studying Objectivism than others and are simply more prominent in the public eye. Lets take Leonard Peikoff as an example. He is a professional philosopher, a professional Objectivist, as well as having the title of Ayn Rand's heir. This definitely qualifies him as being the "top" Objectivist.

 

 

 

BB and NB were heavily involved in the Objectivist movement at one point in their lives therefore I feel this qualifies them as being included in the sample.

 

 

 

The Spiechers are ethnically Jewish as well if I am not mistaken as is David Veksler the owner of this forum (again I'm not sure correct me if I'm wrong).

 

That Jews don't make up that much of the population, yet dominate the top ranks of Objectivism needs an explanation. I am leading towards the explanation that Jews like to make money and that Objectivism promotes this as top virtue, therefore the most enthusiastic Objectivists tend to be Jewish and rise up the ranks.

 

[DrJJ]

Whichever genius said that Jews are prominent in the ranks of Objectivists because objectivist like to make money was just reflecting his own ignorance and biases.

  Do you know anyone who doesn't like to make money?

  The reason that Jews are indeed more affluent than average is the same reason they are prominent in objectivism--they are focused on study, hard work and intellectual activity is very highly prized among the Jews.

 I'm not Jewish myself, but have lived in a Jewish neighborhood most of my adult life and went to school with many of them.

Virtually all of the negative stereotypes about Jews are false, in my opinion reflecting jealousy of their success and accomplishments, which indeed are way out of proportion to their number in the population.

Take a look for example of the incredible number of Jewish Nobel prize winners. Is that because they are "money focused"?

In fact the Jews I know are among the most generous people in the world, and Indeed have been who endow most major universities, museums, and other institutions!