Reformed Trendy Cynic

[One Prime Mover]

Hi all, I've gone and switched user names from my standard "The Trendy Cynic" handle, as in these forums it conveys something other than my intentions.

To tell you something about myself... I'm 23, having just graduated from Queen's U in Canada with a degree in Engineering Physics. I'm in the middle of applying to law school, and it looks like I'm headed to U of Alberta. I hope to transfer to U of Toronto in second year, though, as I intend to practice criminal and/or constitutional law in the United States and U of T is a bit more recognizable to American law firms. I'm also gay, and UofT is a little less conservative in that sense than Alberta.

Aside from a brutal introductory course in ethics and a fantastic course in critical thinking, I've never studied philosophy before. I've debated atheism (and other social issues) in online forums since highschool, which led to my decision to practice law. Until recently I considered myself a liberal/libertarian, but that started changing when I read Atlas Shrugged in December of last year. Since then, I haven't been able to get enough of Ayn Rand's work -- I can honestly say that I've never been so fundamentally affected by one person's writings before, and it's spurred me to invest a huge amount of my time in reading up on Objectivism. Though I still have much to learn on the subject, I consider Objectivism to be an intellectual achievement unsurpassed in brilliance, and I look forward to learning more about it.

[non-contradictor]

Hello, and welcome to the forum. (even though I have seen you around before. ) I like your new alias better. Out of curiosity, what led to the switch from engineering to law, besides your interest in social issues?

edited to remove unessecary quote (it is very helpful while writing the reply, but not so useful afterwards )

Edited March 4, 2005 by non-contradictor

[One Prime Mover]

Out of curiosity, what led to the switch from engineering to law, besides your interest in social issues?

A number of things. My skills are more in line with law. I've got the analytical/logical mind for engineering, but that applies just as well to legal work. I'm very good at arguing, and it's difficult to argue an atom into splitting. I have good people skills and love being the center of attention, none of which apply to sitting in a lab working on particle accelerators. I took the LSAT to see if I had 'the stuff,' and did very well. Of all the skills I could think of that could apply favorably to a legal career, I love and excel at every one (well, my organization skills could use some work, but I'll just hire a sexy assistant for that ). So I'm pretty certain that, if it can ever be said that someone is 'meant' to do something, I'm meant to practice law. It just took me a few years to figure that out.

Oh, and I caught a few episodes of Boston Legal and decided I simply had to be William Shatner.

[Gabriel_S]

A number of things. My skills are more in line with law. I've got the analytical/logical mind for engineering, but that applies just as well to legal work. I'm very good at arguing, and it's difficult to argue an atom into splitting. I have good people skills and love being the center of attention, none of which apply to sitting in a lab working on particle accelerators. I took the LSAT to see if I had 'the stuff,' and did very well. Of all the skills I could think of that could apply favorably to a legal career, I love and excel at every one (well, my organization skills could use some work, but I'll just hire a sexy assistant for that ). So I'm pretty certain that, if it can ever be said that someone is 'meant' to do something, I'm meant to practice law. It just took me a few years to figure that out.

Oh, and I caught a few episodes of Boston Legal and decided I simply had to be William Shatner.

Mr. Mover,

I certainly wouldn't want to rain on your parade, but there are few things you might consider before you fully commit to the career of an attorney.

First, being "very good at arguing," has little to do with the day to day workings of a lawyer. And, it really isn't that relevant for going to law school. (What is? Well, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax.) I know that's a shock for most who don't know anything about how the law is actually practiced and how law school works (other than from TV, the movies and Grisham). What you'll find on nearly any TV show that I've seen that involves the law is about as realistic as Star Trek: Enterprise is to your engineering studies. I can't emphasize this enough - how it's portrayed on TV and the movies isn't anything like what a lawyer does. I'm not saying this to insult or belittle, but as a forewarning. It's a very common and mostly understandable mistake.

Many people think because they are good at and love to argue, that they'd be good lawyers and enjoy the profession. From my experience, that doesn't correlate. That should be at the bottom of your list of reasons to go to law school, but unfortunately it's often at the top of the list for would-be jurists.

Your engineering background can definitely be of benefit in law school as logical thinking and analytical capacity is mandatory. But, that's not nearly enough. Having said that, the fact that you did good on the LSAT is better than if you did poorly, but it doesn't really mean a heck of a lot more than that (at least as a future predictor of success in law school, success as an attorney, and most importantly as an indicator of satisfication in practicing the law). Needless to say, getting a good score on the LSAT is indispensible to getting in to a good school.

Now I think you mentioned being interested in Constitutional law, which is fine. However, you'll likely not know what you're really intersted in and good at until you're quite immersed in law school. Actually, it's good odds you won't know what you want to do until you start practicing a bit.

You should ask yourself: do you want to possibly incur a tremendous amount of debt that will be exeedingly difficult to work away (unless you are graduating at a top law school at the top of your class and working at a law firm, work which will eat up most of life - nights and weekends included)? Do you want incur this debt in lieu of working for the three years you're in law school? Do you love to read a tremendous amount of material all the time? Do you love to think hard and write for hours on end, hour after hour, day after day? The law most of the time isn't socializing, arguing and shmoozing. It's reading, reading, reading, thinking, thinking, thinking, and writing, writing, writing. Oh, and maybe a little sprinkling of arguing and going to court here and there. Now, of course, this all depends upon what area of the law you dealing with and who you are working for, but do yourself a big favor and talk to some attorneys and ask them what their typical days are like. Maybe work as an intern at a law firm, if possible. Read a few cases from a Contracts, Torts, Civil Procedure or Property casebook. Do try to sit in on a few classes at a nearby law school to get a flavor of what's to come. And then decide if you still want to take this road.

At least you didn't say you're doing it for the money because that's about the biggest recipe for unhappiness you'll find.

Edited March 4, 2005 by Gabriel_S

[JMeganSnow]

Politics is a good option. Goodness knows we need all the help we can get. Just be prepared to have Objectivists banging on your door at 3am demanding that you deal with this ridiculous problem and that you do it RIGHT NOW!!!

[One Prime Mover]

Thanks Gabriel -- I appreciate your candor. I allow for the possibility that I am woefully wrong in my estimation of the profession. While I do think I have a wide base of the necessary skills (and, yes, I am very comfortable with lots of reading, lots of thinking and lots of writing), it really isn't possible for me to know whether or not it's the career for me until I experience it first hand.

The reason I'm still willing to go forward, despite the above, is that a law degree in no way restricts me to being a lawyer. Should I find that trial law is not my cup of tea, my law degree can take me forward into areas of social reform (something I'll be extremely interested in whether I'm a lawyer or not) or politics, as JMeganSnow said, which I am also considering.

In short, I've prepped myself well, I think, both for the experience of law school and the possibility that I might hate it within six weeks of sitting down to my first lecture. Sure, there's the possibility of intense disappointment and financial ruin, but... well... fingers crossed...?

[Gabriel_S]

Thanks Gabriel -- I appreciate your candor. I allow for the possibility that I am woefully wrong in my estimation of the profession. While I do think I have a wide base of the necessary skills (and, yes, I am very comfortable with lots of reading, lots of thinking and lots of writing), it really isn't possible for me to know whether or not it's the career for me until I experience it first hand.

The reason I'm still willing to go forward, despite the above, is that a law degree in no way restricts me to being a lawyer. Should I find that trial law is not my cup of tea, my law degree can take me forward into areas of social reform (something I'll be extremely interested in whether I'm a lawyer or not) or politics, as JMeganSnow said, which I am also considering.

In short, I've prepped myself well, I think, both for the experience of law school and the possibility that I might hate it within six weeks of sitting down to my first lecture. Sure, there's the possibility of intense disappointment and financial ruin, but... well... fingers crossed...?

And, I should have ended my previous post by noting that despite everything I've said that you may love it!

Sounds like you are going in with a purpose, a decent amount of consideration and your eyes open. You'll probably be fine. Good luck!