How can one force someone to obey laws with which they disagree?

[marxist]

Can the law of society be used to everyone in this society including those men who don't accept it at the beginning per Objectivism? Who make the law? Does the nature or man's nature make the law or the people make the law according to the man's nature? So the law should be accept by everyone without negotiation.

If the people can negotiate it, then you can say the people can negotiate the absolute man's nature or are there various man's nature there. If there are various man's nature there, can you say it is certain that the people will make the law which they will all accept? If there is only one absolute man's nature, you have to accept it without negotiation, then why there are some people still go against it at the beginning of making this law and can you force him to accept this man's nature's law?

[Moderator's note 1: I have modified your post in the following two ways. Firstly, I capitalized the first word in each sentence. Secondly ran a spell-check and fixed a couple of spelling errors. Please do the same when you post next time. Since you aren't a native English speaker, getting the correct capitalization and spelling are easy ways to make the text more readable. (If you install the Google Toolbar, it contains spell-check.) Thanks. - sN]

[Moderator's note 2: I have moved this thread from the "Critics of Objectivism" sub-forum; please do not post there. If you want to debate, use the Debate forum. If you want to ask about Objectivism, use the "Questions about Objectivism" sub-forum. Thanks - sN]

Edited September 30, 2006 by softwareNerd

[IAmMetaphysical]

The law should only be to protect individual rights. You don't need someone's permission in preventing them from violating rights. There's no need to negotiate. THose who want to institute a gov't that protects individual rights can, and should no matter how much flack they get from criminals.

[marxist]

The law should only be to protect individual rights. You don't need someone's permission in preventing them from violating rights. There's no need to negotiate. THose who want to institute a gov't that protects individual rights can, and should no matter how much flack they get from criminals.

there are various laws in a society.

if there is a law which stipulates eveyone as a child has the obligation to accept the education so his /her parents should and have to sent him/her to school, what would you think about it.

another question, does child has the individual rights?

Edited September 30, 2006 by marxist

[softwareNerd]

Can the law of society be used to everyone in this society including those men who don't accept it at the beginning per Objectivism? Who make the law? Does the nature or man's nature make the law or the people make the law according to the man's nature?

Of course people make the law. This is true of all types of law: good or bad. However, this does not mean that law must be subjective; it must still be based on the nature of reality (including the nature of man). Think of a scientific law, for example. People figure out those laws and express them in terms of words and sentences; but the reality is out there in the real world.

So the law should be accept by everyone without negotiation. If the people can negotiate it, then you can say the people can negotiate the absolute man's nature or are there various man's nature there. If there are various man's nature there, can you say it is certain that the people will make the law which they will all accept?

Think, one again, of scientific laws. People can make errors; so the laws can be right or they can be wrong. Still, this does not mean that they are subjective. People have to discuss what is right and wrong, what should be the law and what should not, and why. People have to point to the real world, and to the purpose of the law, and cause and effect, and demonstrate why a law is either right or wrong. So, it is not "negotiatiation". Saying: "I want this law, because I want it", is not good enough.

If there is only one absolute man's nature, you have to accept it without negotiation, then why there are some people still go against it ...

People do all sorts of things. They eat the wrong food, they steal, they murder. People can be wrong and they can be evil; just because something is right does not mean that people will automatically do that thing.

... can you force him to accept this man's nature's law?

If someone is going to murder you, because "his law" says he ought to do so, then it is in your interest to stop him from obeying "his law".

Before deciding about specific law, one has to figure out the fundamental principles of law. These fundamentals are questions like: why do we have government? why do we need law? what purpose should it serve? This is the place to start.

[Bold Standard]

there are various laws in a society.

if there is a law which stipulates eveyone as a child has the obligation to accept the education so his /her parents should and have to sent him/her to school, what would you think about it.

This law would be a violation of the rights of the parents.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Bold Standard

[Groovenstein]

I find this thread to be so disorganized it is not worth keeping open. It's just going to end up with things going in all sorts of directions. Please restrict threads to one main topic.

Also, many of these subjects are being discussed elsewhere already, in some cases thoroughly (e.g. children's rights). Please check for existing threads on a subject before posting new ones.