Developing a sense of life - how?

Psychology and Self Improvement
1

The following is me trying to figure out where the fault in my inner-logic is. I’m sure that there’s something inherently wrong, something I’ve programmed myself into that it causing me to stumble and fall at every step, but I can’t figure out what it is. It’s a kind of mixture between paranoia and neurosis, stopping me from applying what I know is the correct way of living with my actual life. I think it’s my sense of life, but I’m confused as to how that actually grows, develops and all that.

I keep wondering why it is that I have such trouble correlating my principles with reality. I find it very difficult to actually say ‘I love freedom’ or ‘I love those things which I value’ for example. As much as I understand freedom, say, is such a vital aspect of human nature, I can only revel in it when it is challenged. I think the problem is that I have a severely underdeveloped sense of life. Part of that has been timidity, another part a wilful evasion of reality and another part laziness caused by depression (and further depression caused by laziness – a vicious circle).

I keep asking myself, “Why do I find it so hard to hold an objective value?” in other words, why do I find it so hard to concretely say what I think and feel, what I value and cherish? Everything often feels very ephemeral for me, like, A could be not-A tomorrow, or that what I think is A isn’t really A, it’s just me deluding myself. I think worse than evading reality, is the constant paranoia about evading reality. At least with the first I can dig myself out of the evasion and I have friends to tell me when I’m shutting out all reason. But when I get into that paranoid state, all reason goes out the window.

Like I said, the problem comes from my sense of life. I simply haven’t really lived. I understand I’m only 17, and I can’t blame myself too much for only just realising my errors. But still, even back in the last few years, I’ve muddled up my life too much, eroding away the pillars of my spirit, setting myself up for neurosis, depression and ultimately – apathy.

I’ve had times in the last few months, times lasting for maybe a week or two, where I’ve felt like I was really accomplishing something, like I was really doing good work and the future held a ton of hope, and that I could achieve anything. But I’m still stuck in a morass of confusion. I still illegally download music; I still cannot figure out what I really value; Sex is something I try to approach properly – judging by metaphysical facts – and yet I fail at every stand to do anything (morally) right.

Is it just me or does life sometimes just feel just a bit helpless? I’m not being emo-ish and depressive here. Far from it. I’m still in control of my senses and willing to think. I just find it very, very difficult – not as a matter of challenge, with obstacles I could beat, but as a lack of motivation (no real sense of life).

Maybe I’m confused about the Objective process of gaining a sense of life? One is meant to introspect upon ones values, but what if those values just… don’t really seem valuable? It’s as if, like I said, everything’s just a bit ephemeral and not really real a lot of the time. Maybe I just live inside my own head too much and don’t try to live.

Since You've Discovered O'ism Have You Become More Productive?
2

Moral excellence comes about as a result of habit. We become just by doing just acts, temperate by doing temperate acts, brave by doing brave acts.

I think this is key… If you have rationally found that something is a value, then the only way to “reprogram” your subconscious (i.e. your emotional reactions to your values) is to act on those values… If you sit there thinking “hard work is a value”, you’ll never really accept it unless you start working hard and getting results from it.

3

Cogito is very right here. Part of how you build this is by doing, reflecting and integrating back into what you understand. That is, you can certainly see intellectually how something shoudl be a value, but sometimes it takes you either gaining that value or failing to gain that value even just once (i.e. concretizing it for yourself) to really understand it “in your gut.”

Beyond that, could you give us some concrete examples of some of these issues you have?

4

Cogito + Kendall: I get that you’ve got to go out and do something, the problem is, I feel kind of undermined by myself whenever I do something. Kendall asks for an example, well let’s see… I can’t think of any off the top of my head, it’s more like, when I get in one of those moods, it’s like I can’t help but feeling all my thoughts and actions are absolutely fallible. I don’t just mean I feel mortal, I feel I dunno, I guess you know that whole malevolent universe premise? I think I might be stuck in that.

Like when I think about what I want to do with my life, and I think about what I can do, and then I doubt what I’m able to do, and then because I end up feeling like I can’t do anything, I end up being unable to value anything.

What’s the cure for a malevolent universe premise?

5

Can’t quite relate. I really need an example.

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What’s the cure for a malevolent universe premise?

The cure for that is simple. Realize it’s completely wrong. :worry: The universe really doesn’t care about us one way or the other. Humbling but true. What’s nice about that is that with a Tabula Rasa Universe, we can take it as it is or shape it to our desires. Part of it at least.

I don’t think that’s the actual problem though. If you’ll permit me, I’m going to partake of a bit of psychologizing as to what I think the problem is. If I am way off base, just tell me to blow off.

I understand you to be saying that you don’t value as much as you feel that you should. You want to value passionately, but nothing you think about for a couple of minutes elicits passion. You don’t feel connected to the activity or thing as centrally as others seem to. Close? The problem in that is the “couple minutes” part. There is a pretty well known psychological effect which is best understood as “vested interest”. (The technical term is Attitude-Behavior Consistency) Generally, the more you put into something, the more you value it.

This often leads to some confusion in relationships when one individual pursues another relentlessly. They spend time and money doing all manner of nice things for the object of their affection, only to later be emotionally trounced by them in an “unforeseeable” way. The faulty thinking is that because the trouncer receives all of this excellent treatment, they should love the trouncee without limit. The exact opposite is usually the case, however, as the trouncer has nothing or little invested in the relationship, while the trouncee, is all in.

It applies to anything really. The view from the top of a mountain isn’t anything special if you don’t climb it first.

So if you just flitter about in your mind from thing to thing, investing nothing of yourself, hoping to find something you can’t live without, you’ll most likely be disappointed. These sorts of values are fairly subjective and because their value to you grows overtime, their value to your life may not be immediately obvious. Instead, I suggest looking into the activities, or things or people you think you might like, and then invest time and energy into them. If you like how it affects your life and your person, then put more in. The more you put in, the more integral to your life those things will gradually become, even to the point of being things which you can’t live without. And when that happens, how to motivate yourself to action with them becomes a moot point. So spend time running everyday, and soon, you will consider yourself a"runner." Get married and have a child, and you will be self-identifying as a father. Skeet shoot every weekend for a few years, and you will soon call shooting a “big part of your life”. But putting your energy into it is absolutely key.

Some people find sooner and some later, things they enjoy doing. If they find things they value very young,(say playing and instrument) they have a huge vested interest and self-identify as a musician well before they even begin to question their values consciously. If you are young and haven’t invested a great deal into anything you value yet, then you have the unique opportunity of choosing now, those thing which you will later love, and that’s not such a bad place to be. So Mr. Rasa, see some of the world and enjoy the process. Make like a Nike shoe and “Just Do It”.

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I see what you’re saying, I really do. I understand that values have to be invested into and that the universe isn’t inherently set against me seeking happiness. However, it doesn’t change the fact that I have this unresolved paranoia which I can’t get rid of. It seems ridiculous, because I read everything you’ve written there, and I understand it and it warms me to think of the joy I could get from holding and pursuing values - just the process of exploring. But then it’s like being stabbed in the back, as I constantly judge everything as being unattainable, wrong for me or counter-productive.

Automatic thoughts, as it were, snapping away all the time. Things I don’t want to think, but which come about furiously and passionately, like the Furies chasing Orestes at the end of ‘The Libation Bearers’ (fantastic play by the way :worry: ).

Kendall: Ok, I’ve got a good example. Take a relationship with a girl, my current one for example. I’ve been infatuated with this girl for ages. I’ve wanted to be with her for so long, and we’ve become great friends. Whenever we argue, we always make up very soon; whenever we have a good time, we want to spend more and more time together. The thing is, after she leaves, the doubt and resentment sets in. I’ll start analysing ever little glance, everything she might’ve said but didn’t, everything I’ve said or thought whilst she was there and what it meant. Why didn’t she smile just then? Why won’t she snuggle up closer to me? Why didn’t she say anything?

Do you see what I mean when I say I undermine everything, but it’s almost like it isn’t me (I know, I’m being ridiculous), but like a kind of goblin on my back (I knew I never should have tried to understand the second half of ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’) slipping thoughts into my head and attacking everything I cherish.

I’ve got a better way of putting it: you know how the scientific method involves falsification? It’s like I apply falsification into every little thing in my life. Everything is doubtable, everything is temporary, nothing can be quite trusted.

8

Take a relationship with a girl, my current one for example. I’ve been infatuated with this girl for ages. I’ve wanted to be with her for so long, and we’ve become great friends. Whenever we argue, we always make up very soon; whenever we have a good time, we want to spend more and more time together. The thing is, after she leaves, the doubt and resentment sets in. I’ll start analysing ever little glance, everything she might’ve said but didn’t, everything I’ve said or thought whilst she was there and what it meant. Why didn’t she smile just then? Why won’t she snuggle up closer to me? Why didn’t she say anything?

Relax, and dont be so meticulous about things like that. All you need to be concerned about is acting the way you think you should act. How other people react to your actions is out of your control.

9

I see what you’re saying, I really do. I understand that values have to be invested into and that the universe isn’t inherently set against me seeking happiness. However, it doesn’t change the fact that I have this unresolved paranoia which I can’t get rid of. It seems ridiculous, because I read everything you’ve written there, and I understand it and it warms me to think of the joy I could get from holding and pursuing values - just the process of exploring. But then it’s like being stabbed in the back, as I constantly judge everything as being unattainable, wrong for me or counter-productive.

Automatic thoughts, as it were, snapping away all the time. Things I don’t want to think, but which come about furiously and passionately, like the Furies chasing Orestes at the end of ‘The Libation Bearers’ (fantastic play by the way :worry: ).

Kendall: Ok, I’ve got a good example. Take a relationship with a girl, my current one for example. I’ve been infatuated with this girl for ages. I’ve wanted to be with her for so long, and we’ve become great friends. Whenever we argue, we always make up very soon; whenever we have a good time, we want to spend more and more time together. The thing is, after she leaves, the doubt and resentment sets in. I’ll start analysing ever little glance, everything she might’ve said but didn’t, everything I’ve said or thought whilst she was there and what it meant. Why didn’t she smile just then? Why won’t she snuggle up closer to me? Why didn’t she say anything?

Do you see what I mean when I say I undermine everything, but it’s almost like it isn’t me (I know, I’m being ridiculous), but like a kind of goblin on my back (I knew I never should have tried to understand the second half of ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’) slipping thoughts into my head and attacking everything I cherish.

I’ve got a better way of putting it: you know how the scientific method involves falsification? It’s like I apply falsification into every little thing in my life. Everything is doubtable, everything is temporary, nothing can be quite trusted.

Tenure, that sounds a little bit like good old-fashioned teenage self-doubt to me. I know it well (er.. or knew it well, anyway).

You really like this girl, yes? You really want it to be something more, right? Are you afraid that it won’t work out? Are you afraid that she doesn’t maybe feel the way you do about her?

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Automatic thoughts, as it were, snapping away all the time. Things I don’t want to think, but which come about furiously and passionately, like the Furies chasing Orestes at the end of ‘The Libation Bearers’ (fantastic play by the way :dough: ).

So, you can’t stay in focus then?

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Baseball: It’s not so much to do with how she responds. It’s just an example of how I tend to exaggerate problems in my head.

Kendall: Yeah, I like her and she likes me, and it’s not that I’m worried so much that it won’t work out. I’m just needlessly worried. I tend to fret about things that don’t exist and make up troubles in my head, to the point where it’s very difficult to decide between what’s a real issue and what isn’t.

It probably is just teenage self-doubt. Hopefully I’ll break out of it soon.

aequalsa (I only just realised your name is ‘A=A’ and not some bizarre see creature): pretty much, yeah. Self-doubt just seems to creep into everything, undermining all my hopes.

The thing is, with all this, is it comes and goes. I’ve gone weeks before, without it coming back. Then suddenly it’ll hit me and I can’t get out of it for days.

12

OK, T, I’m starting to get a feel for this. Let me ask this.

Do you feel you are one of those people who can’t stop thinking about stuff? Is your mind always working, even during things when you know it really should just take a break and have some fun? Does the rest of the world seem to move at half pace, and do you seem to always have something thought through before anyone else has even begun to start?

I’m just testing a hypothesis here…

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The last one, I’m not sure. I can’t think of specific examples, apart from working on plays. What sort of things are you asking about, that I might think through before anyone else starts?

But the rest is exactly spot on. It’s not just thinking in general, it’s about thinking about stuff I don’t want to think about too. When you stand on a train platform, and you think how easy it would be to jump down and touch the third rail, or just jump in front of the train. They’re evil thoughts, they’re all contrary to a rational sense of life, but they constantly come up. I mean, I know people do get it around something like a train platform, only I seem to get it furiously, at really strange times and it just won’t go away.

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The last one, I’m not sure. I can’t think of specific examples, apart from working on plays. What sort of things are you asking about, that I might think through before anyone else starts?

Anything really. It’s just more of a general feeling. The fact that you’re 17, and here on this board and you seem to be more introspective than your average 17 yr old. I just wondered if you felt like you were ahead of everyone else’s curve in general.

But the rest is exactly spot on. It’s not just thinking in general, it’s about thinking about stuff I don’t want to think about too. When you stand on a train platform, and you think how easy it would be to jump down and touch the third rail, or just jump in front of the train. They’re evil thoughts, they’re all contrary to a rational sense of life, but they constantly come up. I mean, I know people do get it around something like a train platform, only I seem to get it furiously, at really strange times and it just won’t go away.

Welcome to my world. :dough:

I just wanted to check a few things before I suggested something. Look this is just one idea. There might be all sorts of other things tied to this effect your desribing. Maybe some of them are related to a sense of self-esteem that is not fully formed, but I can’t tell that.

Being a fairly introspective, intellectual person myself, I have found the same sorts of things that you describe, especially when I was younger, but even now (if the issue is meaningful enough to me). I tend to “overthink” it, and as a result even make stuff up that isn’t there just so I can dwell on it.

Now, it’s good to think about stuff, and to be an introspective person but there is a point at which you have to be careful that you don’t disconnect from reality. Your brain will want to continue to analyze something even when the basis for doing so no longer exists. And so you fill it with all kinds of weird stuff, that doesn’t make any sense, and ultimately your emotions follow your brain into that morass.

The first thing, and it sounds like you are already somewhat capable of doing this, is to recognize where that point is. The second thing is to realize that when you reach that point, you need to give your intellect something else to do. You need to consciously divert your thinking away from that topic or you will overthink it.

In some ways, it really is as simple as that, but nothing is that simple is it. How do you do this? Well, I keep more things available for my brain to do than I have time, just so I have options that I can grab any time I need to will myself away from a topic. I’ve gotten in the habit of carrying a journal. I always carry and iPod with me where ever I go. I have more books on my nightstand than I can read at a time. I have several hobbies, and a sheet full of goals for each. I keep a blog. I write on this board. Exercise is also a good way to get rid of the obsessive sorts of thoughts; it’s a great way to get your head back in control.

I don’t know. Does that seem like it might be helpful? I’m being a bit autobiographical so I know it works for me, but not sure if that’s really what you’re experiencing or not. Anyway, food for your thought.

Oh, the other thing is how you shoudl feel about what your experiencing now. I would say guilt or any sort of beating yourself up about it is entirely unnecessary. THe fact that you think things like htat doesn’t make you an irrational person per se, nor does it have any moral implications. Everyone’s mind functions in a certain way. It’s automatic functioning is not rational or irrational. It just is. What is rational if once you learn about how it functions (once you’re cognitively aware of it), then do something about it. It is the choice to will your thought processes onto something else that is the truer test of whether or not you are behaving rationally.

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I don’t know what to say, except thanks Kendall. That actually made a lot of sense and really helped. :thumbsup: I’m sorry I can’t have a long post to repay in kind for the effort you’ve put in here, but with the brevity I have, I’ll just say that I understand what you’re saying. Just gotta apply myself to it now, eh?

16

I don’t know what to say, except thanks Kendall. That actually made a lot of sense and really helped. :slight_smile: I’m sorry I can’t have a long post to repay in kind for the effort you’ve put in here, but with the brevity I have, I’ll just say that I understand what you’re saying. Just gotta apply myself to it now, eh?

No thanks necessary. If I can help someone else deal with the issue, all the better. I’ve made some whopper of mistakes in my life by “overthinking” things and ending up doing things I’ve regretted later. I wish someone would have told me this stuff when I was younger.

17

You know, I’m going back to that place again, where everything feels unachievable. My teacher at Guildhall goes over the basic stuff again and again, from different angles, and I just can’t do it. He tells us how we need to figure out our character’s Objective. What does our character want? But I find it incredibly difficult; so does everyone else. We have a simple scene where two Valets are talking to each other and not one of us could do it right, not one of us could hit the kind of note he wanted. And then it just gets worse after that. If I can’t figure out the Objective, then I can’t figure out the Actions and Activities that lead to fulfilling that Objective.

I mean, Acting, by the Stanislavskian system, is similar to the Objectivist approach to a sense-of-life. Where we have values, characters have ‘relationships’ (with a person or object); where we take steps to achieve those values, characters have Actions; where we take smaller steps to achieve those bigger steps, characters have Activities. Put basically, characters are goal-orientated beings (i.e. they’re human).

The thing is, in both Acting and Objectivism, I have this same issue. I understand why all this stuff works, and it all makes sense. I just can’t actually do it. I’ve tried this concious-diversion, but it’s not working. I feel like I’m just avoiding reality, and then I feel guilty about it. I’m starting work in Promotions, and during the time I was working I felt really psyched, even when I was just waiting for something else to do. But when I got home and I was on my own, I eventually just felt like I do now - I started wandering back to, “But what is my future in life”. I don’t want to drown out the future by focusing on immediate actions like a drug-addict drowns out reality by looking for the next fix.

I think it’s worse than not being able to focus. I wish it were that, I wish I could just go out and do things, try things, learn to value things, but I can’t. What is there to do? Who is there to meet? Every time I try my hand at writing something, it’s good for the first half-hour, and then deteriorates as I can’t think of the how to say what I want to say, and then I look at the good stuff the next day and realise it’s terrible, not even worth the effort I spend salvaging it. I try again and again to get my Acting right, but I just fuck up at every turn, every time it’s my turn to present something to the class, and it’s terrible. I try to have conversations with people and they’re even worse than anything; they just remind me how much I can’t relate to the people around me and how little I have to share with the world.

I want more than anything to have confidence, but not for confidence’s sake - I want that confidence to come from my ability. I want to be selfish, and proud and arrogant, to be able to really know myself and the world so as to ‘conquer reality’ as it were. I just feel worthless more than anything.

Maybe this’ll be gone as some more Promo work crops up, but it’ll come creeping back again; it always does. I’m 18 next Tuesday and I don’t want a party. I’ve got nothing to celebrate, nothing to look back on and nothing to look forward to. I envy the men of ability who fail to see their own glory; I’m a man of inability who can only see other people’s glory.

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I envy the men of ability who fail to see their own glory; I’m a man of inability who can only see other people’s glory.

This is untrue, but you know that. You have plenty of ability already, and loads of potential to develop more. Hell, you’re 18! You’ve just started!

When you feel down, like you do right now, acknowledge it then forget about it. The time to mull it over, trying to figure out the source, is not when you’re feeling down, it’s when you’ve got a clear head to evaluate. In the meantime, pick one activity and go do it. Ignore how well it’s done or whatever, you’ll feel better just doing something besides moping.

As for your long-term goals and interests, the first step is realizing that you can do them, and then the second step is doing them for the first time… then the second… then the third. The great fountain of quotes on the forum’s opening page threw this out for me a couple days ago:

We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.

I have confidence you can figure out how to form habits of your choice for yourself. There is nothing standing in your way, sir!

19

I’m rushing around doing a ton of different house chores at the moment, so I just wanted to quickly say, that quote from Aristotle gave me a very hearty, lively chuckle; a laugh of life.

20

Ok, so I’ve gone back with a clear head to try and evaluate it, but I still can’t figure out what’s going on. The more I think about it, the more I think about my 18th next week, which is the big thing on my mind at the moment. I don’t want a party, and I’ve not had a party since I was 11. I’m not some loner, it’s just that I’ve never felt like throwing a party ever. I’ve really never had anything to celebrate, and even with the way things have been improving in the last few months, I’m still a long stretch away from what could be considered healthy, in my psychology, philosophy or social life.

Do you think I’m just worrying too much?