Good looks as a rational value

Ethics
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[Link to the original post on my blog]

Good looks as a rational value

Is it shallow to care how one looks in the eyes of others? Is it a sign of some psychological weakness?

The problem is in the question itself. The action, or intention itself - is neither good nor bad - it depends on the wider context of an individual’s psychology.

Some use good looks as a way to achieve “social stature” which they use as a replacement for self esteem. If you’ve ever wondered about the frantic way some people try to sell their life as a success story of a top model on social sites like Facebook, the above, in my opinion, is the reason.

However there are those who take pleasure openly in being aesthetically valued and enjoyed by others.

For them being appreciated for their looks, dressing up in the morning to welcome a world worth showing one’s beauty to - is a pursuit of a rational value.

The appearance of a human being can communicate beauty which can not be found in nature and not in the most sensational sunset: It is beauty of character.

A proud way of standing, a hidden smile ready to bloom for the right occasion are a sight to enjoy for every man with a positive feeling about people and life.

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A physical beauty to match a beautiful character reflects spiritual perfection in physical form and integrates them (as I will explain later in more detail). This integration between the spiritual and the physical is a cognitive need that comes from the nature of our mind as holding knowledge abstractly.

In what way can we “see” nobility, or pride? Only in physical, material, tangible things like facial expressions, body language and - body structure and facial features.

Spirituality has no visibility except through the material.

You can see this need to express spiritual perfection through physical perfection in art, where heroes have perfect proportions in addition to the right body language and expression. [<a href=“http://www.imaginistix.com/details.cfm?Id=341" target=”_blank">See example</a>]

Not every element in one’s physical appearance reflects on one’s character. If one is tough and truthful, it will reflect in one’s habitual way of holding one’s facial muscles. If one is proud and confident, it will show in one’s manner of standing and walking. Obesity, in many cases, is an expression of psychological stress. But something like a 90-60-90 figure vs. a 80-70-90 figure (less feminine looking) reflects no spiritual trait.

It still remains, however, that physical beauty, even of the kind that does not reflect traits of character, creates an integration of the spiritual and physical in the viewer’s mind, as can be seen in art.

Appreciation, in general, from others one appreciates is a rational value, even a psychological need. If one considers oneself worthy of appreciation then getting that appreciation from others is a tremendous value and pleasure.

The human mind is a powerful thing, when others are logical; their opinions mirror our own understanding of reality.

Self-esteem is a deep psychological need and a value one cannot live without. When our own recognition of our worth and achievements is reflected to us by others, we experience heightened awareness of the reality of our own value, which is very pleasurable.

Allowing others to enjoy one’s physical beauty compliments that need (for people of self-esteem).

Consider the wonderful things physical beauty allows us to celebrate:

The romantic atmosphere of a date in which both look phenomenal (especially the woman) is largely due to the declaration that beauty is a great way to celebrate and enhance finding each other valuable.

When a woman takes special care to dress up for a date she is implicitly communicating to her partner that she sees him as a value and because of that getting his appreciation and enjoyment from her looks is a value to her - something she is willing to put the time into.

Investing in one’s look on every day basis is a way to celebrate a world in which one is worthy of being seen and enjoyed by others. It is a reflection of seeing the world as good - as a place inhabited by good people (perhaps not all, or even many - but it at least expresses the recognition that some exist).

Notice that when one views the world as bad and people as evil one looses the desire to look good (I am talking about a rational person here, not about those who want to look good to win a competition with their friends).

Ever wondered why some women like shopping so much? Here is why: A piece of clothing that compliments one’s figure and matches a certain event or atmosphere allows one to experience how one would like to be seen, evaluated and experienced by someone else in a certain occasion.

Clothes are like a piece of a fantasy, half real, stored in one’s closet for future use. Women take pleasure in storing such fantasies in their closet because that makes the fantasies half real - a promise for an enjoyable future.

For example, buying a dress that emphasizes a woman’s feminine features holds the romantic fantasy of a magical evening out with someone she admires. An elegant looking suit is a way to celebrate one’s image as a good worker, appreciated as such by others, and so on.

The same is true for men, but more so for women because in romantic relationships women are the ones being pursued (although, this is another topic which I will leave for another time).

And in conclusion, take Will Smith’s words on the value of good looks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qkD4bw-bs4&h…S&fs=1&

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Good post, I agree that looking good is a rational value for any individual.

The same is true for men, but more so for women because in romantic relationships women are the ones being pursued (although, this is another topic which I will leave for another time).

I really don’t buy that at all (or even suggesting pursued/pursuer applies to all romantic relationships), but I’ll just look forward to when you write about that topic.

Why should it be more important for either side to look better?

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Thanks for this post. I especially appreciate that there is an emphasis on the female perspective, which I’m pretty ignorant of.

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Good post, I agree that looking good is a rational value for any individual.

I really don’t buy that at all (or even suggesting pursued/pursuer applies to all romantic relationships), but I’ll just look forward to when you write about that topic.

Why should it be more important for either side to look better?

Female and male sexuality are not identical - they each have their own distinct nature. I am not talking here about any particular individual’s sexuality but something metaphysical all humans have in common.

However, personal development can have a lot to do with a person’s sexual identity so I don’t think that all people would fit the description.

Trust me when I tell you, if we start talking about this this thread will quickly be about nothing but this topic and it will take pages and pages until the eye can see - all off topic.

I rather not get into it here. You can look up Betsy Speicher’s writing on this subject of romantic relationships and sexuality, I agree with her view and she describes it well. I did a quick Google search but didn’t find anything so I’ll leave the search to you. You can try searching at the forums.4aynrandfans.com

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Betsy commented on this, Ifat. She said that (quoting from memory) “A good woman is attracted to a man’s character”. Not that looks don’t matter, but not as much as they do to men.

Which I think is true. Men go gaga over looks more than women, in my experience. As for myself, how do I put this, I have an “affinity” for attractive faces. It’s like a trained supertaster or a highly gifted and tone-sensitive music listener. It matters so much to me that it would do no one justice for me to pursue a woman who won’t make me want to stare like an idiot.

Would that basic body structure and beauty (not kemptness, which anyone can master) were determined by moral character. Pure fantasy, of course. As it is, it’s a genetic lottery and in a way, it’s a shame that it so heavily affects my (and that of many others) choice of romantic partner.

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While good looks (and an obvious attempt on the part of the lady to take care of herself physically and aesthetically) might draw me in, I’ve met too many of the “She ain’t pretty, she just looks that way” type to be sucked in by a single dimensional beauty queen.

The thing is as soon as I find out a beautiful woman does not possess the intelligence, grace or rational faculty to back her beauty up, she literally stops being beautiful to me.

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While good looks (and an obvious attempt on the part of the lady to take care of herself physically and aesthetically) might draw me in, I’ve met too many of the “She ain’t pretty, she just looks that way” type to be sucked in by a single dimensional beauty queen.

The thing is as soon as I find out a beautiful woman does not possess the intelligence, grace or rational faculty to back her beauty up, she literally stops being beautiful to me.

Looks are intrinsically linked to the biological requirements that cause us to desire sexual relationships. I don’t mean explicitly sexual, I mean, relationships between sexes. Romance. In a gender-neutral society, we could have many friends. Sex and romance are human values. That they lead to children is a helpful context for them. That men and women are generally different is an even more helpful context.

Romance is one of those areas where you have to look at biology in the context of objective values. With food, the connection is explicit: you need it to live. You don’t need sex to survive, but in order to live as a complete human you do need it a little. I’m not an expert on it, I like a lot of what Dr. Peikoff has written on it.

So, yes, looks are important. If you are born with a low IQ, can you hope to build particle accelerators? Maybe, but there might be a much more appropriate thing for you to find to do for yourself. Likewise, if you are born with bad looks, perhaps you should look for a relationship with someone with less good looks. Looks are a commodity.

You can improve your looks. Simple measures like clothing and hairstyle, neatness and orderliness of appearance, makeup, shaving, odeurs (ha, I mean smelly spray items) can go a long way towards appeal and are absolutely important in my opinion. There is plastic surgery. I don’t like the idea of it, but I have to admit that rationally I understand why in some cases somebody might want a face lift or nose job. Too much of that distorts other values I think, but a rational society should be willing to admit the usefulness of these procedures.

Some women for example, know that getting a nose job will make them get promoted more at work. I think that’s a terrible commentary on society, but if it’s true, it is.

But, looks aren’t everything. You must be willing to learn to love ‘certain looks’. The way somebody smiles when you are admiring their character. Also, looks can be very harmful to character. I know many very beautiful people with completely distorted values because 1)everytime something bad happened to them, everybody cared 2)everytime something good happens, everyone notices 3)anytime they do anything, they always get attention. They don’t realize that most people actually don’t get that level of attention most of the time, and tend to be a little oblivious to the experience of others. On the other hand, I know may less than good looking people who are very bitter, and it’s because they don’t get any attention. They particularly hate the beautiful people. It is an admiration/obsession sort of hatred.

So, yes, good looks are a rational value. Inasmuch as you can obtain them, you should try to. But you must understand the context in which good looks have value, and pay close attention to character.

Here is my dilemma - I would love to date a very beautiful woman, I would LOVE it. But then again, I think I would HATE it, because from experience they have been out of touch. If you are a beautiful and wonderful woman - you deserve a rich guy :wink:

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Notice that when one views the world as bad and people as evil one looses the desire to look good (I am talking about a rational person here, not about those who want to look good to win a competition with their friends).

I can relate to what you’re saying here. The attitude that is usually expressed, in my experience is: "Why invest the time to make your body look appealing to others, when all you will get for your trouble is scorn. This certainly originates from thinking that people are innately malevolent, which can have wider repercussions on the pursuit of any other value.

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To clarify, when I said I agree good looks are a rational value, I am *not* referring to physical features which are determined by genetics.

I don’t mean explicitly sexual, I mean, relationships between sexes. Romance. In a gender-neutral society, we could have many friends. Sex and romance are human values. That they lead to children is a helpful context for them. That men and women are generally different is an even more helpful context.

Romance is good sure, but I don’t see how this is relevant to the topic of good looks.

So, yes, looks are important. If you are born with a low IQ, can you hope to build particle accelerators? Maybe, but there might be a much more appropriate thing for you to find to do for yourself. Likewise, if you are born with bad looks, perhaps you should look for a relationship with someone with less good looks. Looks are a commodity.

I think that’s a pretty bad analogy. IQ *could* have an impact on your ability to build particle accelerators (probably arguable, but that’s offtopic). Physical features have literally no impact on anything you are capable of doing. Unfortunately, many people conform to a particular method of judgment for no other reason than most people do it. In this case, judging the quality of the physical features one possesses. There is no rational reason to value a person more or even differently because of their physical features. ( I expand more in this further down; if you’re like me, you probably respond to only certain paragraphs at a time ).

You can improve your looks. Simple measures like clothing and hairstyle, neatness and orderliness of appearance, makeup, shaving, odeurs (ha, I mean smelly spray items) can go a long way towards appeal and are absolutely important in my opinion. There is plastic surgery. I don’t like the idea of it, but I have to admit that rationally I understand why in some cases somebody might want a face lift or nose job. Too much of that distorts other values I think, but a rational society should be willing to admit the usefulness of these procedures.

I would agree with the first things you’ve said, as all that is a matter of choice and declaring what about yourself (in a spiritual way, like art) that you like. That isn’t to say it is a must have value to all people, just that it can be entirely rational. But would you suggest that having a certain kind of physical feature makes one good looking or beautiful? I see no usefulness in plastic surgery other than saying there is a *wrong* way for unchosen features to appear. Would you consider physical features as such, rather than how physical features relate to what goes well with your body type, add or create beauty?

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I’ll make a brief comment since plastic surgery has been frowned upon multiple times now. Though I don’t really care much about what is just a product of the genetic luck of the draw, I think plastic surgery for reconstruction, to restore yourself as best as you can to a healthy state should be understandable for at least most people here. Who really wants to have to walk around with evidence of having been damaged still on them? Maybe some minor thing some people may choose to keep for particular reasons, but generally if you can get rid of it and fix it, you’d probably like to return to your optimal state of body much the same way you wouldn’t want to live the rest of your life with emotional damage that never really healed right. Furthermore though, I’m fairly supportive of their being a fine reason to have plastic surgery to change your looks even for reasons other than healing an injury. I think cosmetic surgery gives people the option of doing things to consciously take control over what was otherwise just randomly assigned to them, to let them do more to choose what they look like, to try to make their outside actually match how they see themselves inside. And you actually have to do something to get plastic surgery, it isn’t just plopped upon you with no ability of you to make it come about or not in any particular way the way genetics is. Somebody may actually do virtuous things which enable them to then go and get plastic surgery, so that may mean something as opposed to how the genetically given really doesn’t mean much of anything, so long as somebody is getting things done because they personally would like to look a certain way without regard to the opinions of others and just trying to look how others would like.

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Somebody may actually do virtuous things which enable them to then go and get plastic surgery, so that may mean something as opposed to how the genetically given really doesn’t mean much of anything, so long as somebody is getting things done because they personally would like to look a certain way without regard to the opinions of others and just trying to look how others would like.

I agree that plastic surgery for reconstruction is entirely rational, since you are fixing damage to your body. I’m just not so sure if wanting to change the nose you were born with is a rational thing. If one’s face isn’t deformed due to disease or accident, I do not know what rational reason one would want to have a certain physical feature changed. It’s not really the plastic surgery I have issue with, because I don’t see any physical feature that ought to be considered necessarily ugly. But then again, isn’t changing hair color the same thing, just less risky? That may suggest a contradiction in my thinking. I suppose I should say that having been born a certain way is perfectly fine. Cosmetic surgery is merely alteration like changing hair color, but that it alone won’t make you beautiful. Do most people who get cosmetic surgery get it for rational reasons? Probably not.

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To clarify, when I said I agree good looks are a rational value, I am *not* referring to physical features which are determined by genetics.

Would you consider physical features as such, rather than how physical features relate to what goes well with your body type, add or create beauty?

You’re just misusing the term beauty here. I have never before heard of beauty defined as some unspecified relationship between body type and physical features.

If you don’t care about beauty (the aesthetic quality of someone’s appearance), you should pick a different name for what you do care about. Calling it “beauty, but not” is very confusing.

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Do most people who get cosmetic surgery get it for rational reasons? Probably not.

I agree with this. I especially abhor the idea I mentioned about getting surgery to get ahead in the workplace. That beauty affects productivity is absurd. But my feelings about plastic surgery are that people have an irrational attachment to ‘purity’ in terms of not wanting to change how they were born to look. Complete self-obliteration, in the name of compulsive seeking of cheap beauty, I disagree with. But I think a rational person might want to consider whether a comittment to ‘the nose I was born with’ is entirely rational when it gets in the way of romance in particular. Bluecherry made a good point about damage and restoring a ‘normal’ look. You can also be born without a ‘normal’ look. You asked what is normal? Symmetry, proportion, straight teeth, all these things are objectively ‘normal’ and ‘healthy’ for human beings. Granted, there are many many qualities that transcend beauty in terms of importance when judging a person, but if beauty is something you choose to judge, these are the general standards. Perhaps your father, whom you might deeply admire (I say father because I am a man, and am thinking from that perspective), had a certain kind of eyebrow. Though by far not an important feature, that kind of eyebrow might distinguish someone as good looking, as a bonus, to you.

Before I go on to romance, let me acknowledge that there are powerful emotion forces regarding beauty and self-esteem. I venture into the realm of psychologizing just a little, and I know we all try to be rational, but sometimes discussions about beauty can call up those emotions. [edit - I do not direct this to anyone in particular, I’m trying to make it clear that rampant physical surgery is something I disagree with] I mention this to moderate my point. I am of the opinion that most people, by far, require nothing on the order of surgery to change their appearance. My argument about surgery is that I believe there are cases when it is appropriate, and that view is derived from my general conclusions about beauty.

Now, concerning romance, this is where beauty is particularly relevant. All else being equal, I’d want to have a relationship with the most beautiful person possible - according to my subjective standard. Some of that standard is objectively quantifiable - like I said, symmetry, etc. But the point is that it is a matter of genetics.

People can improve their appearance - keep their hair a certain way, dress a certain way, take care of skin and teeth, and I am of the opinion that this is incredibly important. Oh, and in most cases weight is completely an important category. This is TNT, though I think it is relevant to the topic.

But let me be clear, between someone I found very beautiful, and someone I was hardly attracted to, unless the later was significantly more virtuous than the former, I would choose the former for romance. Again, I think my standard of ‘acceptable’ vs. ‘unacceptable’ is probably 70% vs. 30% when it comes to genetic traits. It’s not a ridiculous, irrational standard.

But if I’m indulging romance - though the rational part comes first in judgment - it would be irrational to disregard how attractive a person is. If the most intelligent wonderful woman in the world was totally unappealing to me physically, I wouldn’t rationally disregard her virtues. And I have dated people whom I haven’t found entirely attractive, for your information, and I was still able to feel a romantic attraction over other qualities.

But, inevitably, the more beautiful people tend to date the more beautiful people, and the less, the less. That’s not the consequence of irrationality, its just how it works. All else equal, people are perfectly rational to seek the most attractive romantic partner they can. That’s my opinion on the topic.

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Do most people who get cosmetic surgery get it for rational reasons? Probably not.

I guess that would depend on what you would consider a rational reason and whether or not a given person selected at random from your sample of ‘most people’ would agree that your reasoning is correct.

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But, inevitably, the more beautiful people tend to date the more beautiful people, and the less, the less. That’s not the consequence of irrationality, its just how it works. All else equal, people are perfectly rational to seek the most attractive romantic partner they can. That’s my opinion on the topic.

I think this is incorrect, insofar as beauty goes. For attractiveness, which takes character into account, it probably holds true. But for looks, there are just so many couples where they play in different leagues in that deparment. Isnt this the reason for the old saying that “love is blind”?

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If you don’t care about beauty (the aesthetic quality of someone’s appearance), you should pick a different name for what you do care about. Calling it “beauty, but not” is very confusing.

What I’m saying is that I don’t think physical features that are determined by genetics should be taken into account in an objective judgment about a person’s beauty. Physical features are not irrelevant though, since they can help determine what sorts of clothing to wear.

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What I’m saying is that I don’t think physical features that are determined by genetics should be taken into account in an objective judgment about a person’s beauty. Physical features are not irrelevant though, since they can help determine what sorts of clothing to wear.

I get your point 100% but dear god that’s waayyy to evolved for me :stuck_out_tongue:

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What I’m saying is that I don’t think physical features that are determined by genetics should be taken into account in an objective judgment about a person’s beauty. Physical features are not irrelevant though, since they can help determine what sorts of clothing to wear.

Why not? Do you think a woman with a clubfoot, dwarfism and a hunchback could be as beautiful as, say, Megan Fox?

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good looks as in having a pleasing form for genetic reasons, or good looks as the result of good grooming?

The first is an accident, the second shows diligence and good judgment.

Bob Kolker

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Didn’t Ayn Rand herself say, “Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy of life.”? I think that can pretty much sum up the idea of good looks as a rational value.