Hello, I am not an objectivist and came across this site by chance.
I would consider myself a postmodern Marxia n leaning kind of person.
I am here to have a look at what is so appealing to you all as objectivists.
I understand as somebody with socialist tendencies I may be banned, thats fine if they are the rules etc. I can the logic behind that of course, if however it is ok I will probbaly be lurking about and myabe posting a few questions.
I understand as somebody with socialist tendencies I may be banned, thats fine if they are the rules etc. I can the logic behind that of course, if however it is ok I will probbaly be lurking about and myabe posting a few questions.
Speaking personally I don’t have a problem with your having socialist tendencies as such, as long as you’re polite and stick to facts and logic in discussion.
“I am here to have a look at what is so appealing to you all as objectivists.”
You’ll have to read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged if you want to find out what is “appealing” to Objectivists as such.
This forum is for discussing specific points. The general structure and principles of Objectivism are mostly implicit in the discussions, and where they are stated explicitly, there is no sufficient explication for all newbies.
I am here to have a look at what is so appealing to you all as objectivists.
I agree with the others in that you should read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead in order to get a proper presentation of the philosophy in it’s entirety.
I find anything appealing that is right. In my explorations of objectivism I have yet to find any fallacies or contradictions. Just as nature cannot have any contradictions, a philosophy that follows Man’s nature correctly can not have any contradictions.
Once you grasp a few of the core concepts of objectivism things start to clear up incredibly- and it becomes very appealing to live your life by a code that promotes freedom instead of slavery. Right instead of wrong. Reason instead of nonsense. You realize that life is an “either, or” decision. Either Life or Not Life. Life or Death.
I am here to have a look at what is so appealing to you all as objectivists.
It’s not so much about choosing what ideas appeal to you and which don’t, it’s about what’s true and what isn’t… that’s the key thing.
Objectivism doesn’t start with a political view, it starts much earlier with a full view of what reality is and what truth is, and then derives it’s political views from that.
I would consider myself a postmodern Marxian leaning kind of person.
I approached “Atlas Shrugged” from a communist point of view 15 years ago. I considered it a good opportunity to get to know the enemy. By the time I finished it my whole world had been turned upside-down.
If you’re like me, initially you’ll find her ideas about economics very interesting. I recommend “Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal” and “The Virtue of Selfishness.”
Many people, including the official Objectivist organization, ARI, recommend her fiction to begin with. But, if you are philosophically advanced, beginning with Peikoff’s “Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand” is not a bad way to go.
If you approach Rand’s books with intellectual honesty (being open to a rational argument) then I guarantee you will find in her philosophy a challenge to everything you currently believe in. You will have to discover for yourself whether Marx has an answer for her.
Joe C.
Actually reading some of the books would be a good start.
Then question the following, in order:
Metaphysics - the study of existence
Epistemology - the study of knowledge and man’s means of acquiring it.
Ethics - a guide for man ought to do
Politics - how does man interact with others.
Oh, and both communism and socialism are unrealizable. For the economics, read Ludwig Von Mises’ ‘Socialism’. For the philosophy, ever tried to nationalize a mind?
:yarr:
Ok thanks guys for all the advice.
BlackSabbath who are you on Capitalist Paradise, I have had the same argument used against me over there.
Ok thanks guys for all the advice.
BlackSabbath who are you on Capitalist Paradise, I have had the same argument used against me over there.
I’m Jethro Tull at Capmag forum.
Why are you bothered about whether or not I am at Capitalist Paradise? :yarr:
The argument, while re-worded by me, is from Atlas Shrugged and I would like to know your view on it. 
Actually reading some of the books would be a good start.
Then question the following, in order:
Metaphysics - the study of existence
Epistemology - the study of knowledge and man’s means of acquiring it.
Ethics - a guide for man ought to do
Politics - how does man interact with others.
Oh, and both communism and socialism are unrealizable. For the economics, read Ludwig Von Mises’ ‘Socialism’. For the philosophy, ever tried to nationalize a mind?
:lol:
Actually, Socialism is realizable. It was realized by the USSR, Maoist China, North Korea, Vietnan, Cuba, England, Italy, Germany, etc, all with the same results, depending on their consistency. The realization of socialism is, starvation, misery and death.
Actually, Socialism is realizable. It was realized by the USSR, Maoist China, North Korea, Vietnan, Cuba, England, Italy, Germany, etc, all with the same results, depending on their consistency. The realization of socialism is, starvation, misery and death.
Actually, Nitty McPicker, it’s not. 
It must fail for the reasons in my previous post. B)
I’m Jethro Tull at Capmag forum.
Why are you bothered about whether or not I am at Capitalist Paradise?
The argument, while re-worded by me, is from Atlas Shrugged and I would like to know your view on it.
I just assumed you were the same person, I had no idea it was a common Objectivist argument.
By the way where are all the objectivists gone from my forum, there was a big debate going on with the Marxists and everything!
On the nationalizing the mind, I dont see how its relevant to socialism.
I just assumed you were the same person, I had no idea it was a common Objectivist argument.
By the way where are all the objectivists gone from my forum, there was a big debate going on with the Marxists and everything!
On the nationalizing the mind, I dont see how its relevant to socialism.
Socialism calls for the nationalization of the means of production but what is the root of production if not the human mind?
That is what precedes machines, capital and labour.
The nationalization of the mind argument is in the Galt’s Speech chapter of Atlas Shrugged BTW.
Geist
By the way where are all the objectivists gone from my forum, there was a big debate going on with the Marxists and everything!
Debating with a Marxist is so boring. They know nothing. They lie. The only thing that is good about debating with a Marxist is laughing at their poor grammar, and laughing at their total inability to spell. Really, I think a flat-Earther is a person more in touch with reality than a freaking Marxist.
Well it’s starting to even out now, there is still a debate going on about whether A is A, in fact I plan on making an objectivist a Mod soon just for some balance.
Well it’s starting to even out now, there is still a debate going on about whether A is A, in fact I plan on making an objectivist a Mod soon just for some balance.
Sorry Geist, senseless ad hominems and evasions don’t make for much of a debate, and that is all that discussion consists of.
A debate about whether A is A? Who stepped in that one? It is a two sentence debate.
“A is A”
“No, it’s not.”
First person walks away.
Hey Geist buddy,
Are you here for amusement or to really understand what’s all this fus on Objectivism all about.
A fine way to start would be to say "What as a Marxian is so appealing to you? "
If you points are valid then you will find an agreement here and a reason for that agreement.
Enjoy your stay !
p.s: eventhough valid Marxian is a contradiction in terms but I would’nt stress on that until its proven to you.
Hey Geist buddy,
Are you here for amusement or to really understand what’s all this fus on Objectivism all about.
A fine way to start would be to say "What as a Marxian is so appealing to you? "
If you points are valid then you will find an agreement here and a reason for that agreement.
Enjoy your stay !
p.s: eventhough valid Marxian
is a contradiction in terms but I would’nt stress on that until its proven to you.
I’ve seen Geist’s post over at Capitalist Paradise and, through a link, at Che Lives.
Geist is a Marxist revolutionary with social metaphysics.
He is not a rational person.
I’ve seen Geist’s post over at Capitalist Paradise and, through a link, at Che Lives.
Geist is a Marxist revolutionary with social metaphysics.
He is not a rational person.
Well I would not be considered a Marxist by any Marxist I know, I am more of a populist supporting people like Chavez and Castro than supporting the idea of some Trotskyist or Leninist revolution.
Social metaphysics? What the feck does that even mean? I reject metaphysics completely, I am a humanist, explain how you came to that view.
I am rational and irrational at times, in that I am human, I make errors.
