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franked

Achieving redemption after betraying best friend

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For over two months, I was in love with my best friend (Francis). Two weeks ago, we kissed at a party while she was partly drunk. Gradually, she started ignoring me (something I only realize now). 3 days after the kiss, I asked her out, and she said no, saying the maximum we would be would be friends.

I felt horrible and used obviously, but since I still love her as a person I was delighted with going back to being best friends. However, she continued to gradually ignore me (maybe because she felt awkward around me), and started complaining crazily about random things, like me responding to what her ex (which I thought she was friends with) commented on my FB wall (a comedy video, nothing relevant). She said I treated her awfully, which was completely untrue, since I have always treated her like my sister and best friend, and that I was rude to everyone.

Last Friday, we had a college party, and when I arrived there and greeted her, she completely ignored me, and didn't want to talk to me.

I was completely PISSED.

Unfortunately, I chose to drink heavily, which was a huge mistake. Subconsciently wanting revenge, I called up a girl I knew she hated (Julie) and asked if I could go with her to her school's party. She accepted, and at the party I seduced her and we kissed. While I do think this girl is kind and attractive, I clearly did it out of spite, not only attraction.

After this, I have been completely sad, crying every day. I have told everything to my cousin (Mary), which is also my best friend's best friend.

I am planning to tell everything to Francis the next day I see her, which will be Wednesday. Is this proper action? What should I do? Can I ever get my friends back? I am completely lost and seeking for help.

Thanks a bunch, Frank.

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Why are you friends with this person? Given that you will never have a romantic partnership with her, does she provide you any real value? These are not rhetorical questions. I ask this because I wouldn't you to be friends with someone just because you hope to date them. If she is a good friend apart from that potential however, I would not want you to end that friendship, just to be clear.

Really all you did was kiss another girl, after she said she didn't want to date you. So how exactly did you betray her? I am sure it didn't help whatever "friendship" you had, but she friend zoned you, and you found someone else to flirt with, that is all on her.

I suggest that you wait a couple of days, and not have any serious conversations with her. She probably needs some time to think things through, and so do you. Then maybe a few days or weeks from now you can actually have real conversation about this when you are not so emotional and panicked about it. If you guys are really good friends, you don't need to overwhelm one another.

Edited by Hairnet

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Yes, Francis provides me with great value: she's fun, kind, we share the same interests in all kinds of areas. I am happy just by being next to her.

What I am have not made it clear is that she hates Julie and have before expressly told me not to even talk to her.

Another thing to consider is if I don't tell her soon she may find out from someone else that saw us.

Edited by franked

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Is there any real reason that this Julie girl is so horrible?

As I said earlier, if she doesn't want you flirting with other girls, then she should have taken the opportunity to date you. She lost out on that, that is on her. You shouldn't feel bad for that.

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According to what I remember Francis talking about her, Julia bad-mouthed her behind her back to mutual friends after Francis dated a boy Julie was also interested in. Mary, my cousin, also says she's not a good person, but from what I have seen she cares a lot about other people (the day after we kissed she FB'ed me that she wasn't unhappy at all at Francis and that wanted me and Francis to go back to being besties).

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So they had some personal drama between the two of them. That doesn't mean you can't talk to both of them. No one owns you.

If she didn't want you to flirt with other girls, she should have dated you. You didn't betray her.

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I guess I believed I betrayed her because one of my main motivation of going out and kissing Julie was to revenge Francis.

Essentially, "if you don't want me, then I'll be with the person you hate".

That doesn't seem proper behaviour regarding your best friend.

(Of course, I also believe that the way Francis treated me was horrible, but that shouldn't excuse my bad behaviour.)

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I guess I believed I betrayed her because one of my main motivation of going out and kissing Julie was to revenge Francis.

You didn't betray her in that instance but you may have betrayed yourself and that's most likely what hurts. You pursued her to hurt Francis so you used your affection for the purpose of revenge. I don't recommend that as a general rule. I also though, don't recommend losing much sleep over Francis, who strikes me, from your description, as an emotional succubus. I'd say move on from both and stay true to yourself.

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Thanks for the help guys.

An update to my situation: before I even told her Francis about Julie, she berated me for being a horrible friend, saying I just want her pain, that I frequently lie to her. I asked for examples of that, but she didn't give me any. When I told her about Julie, she said "whatever, I like don't hate her, not that it's your business". She said she doesn't want someone like me anymore in her life and don't want to be friends. Summarizing, she treated me horribly, and I ended the conversation telling her to remember our great times together and that whenever she changed her mind, I was open to being friends again.

Regarding Julie, I am getting more attracted to her (both her beauty and niceness) by the day. We're going out on Friday.

aequalsa likes this

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What a complicated story! I don't remember the exact wording, but Ayn Rand said when you are in love, you see your Values in the person you are in love. So the way you "use" another person to revenge is not right, in the end you are the one who will have to suffer from your action the most. However, romantic love is a relationship, it takes two to complete. So there's no use to chase the one who refuse you. But before making your final decision, make you all your thoughts and true feelings are well communicated to your love interest.

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For over two months, I was in love with my best friend (Francis). Two weeks ago, we kissed at a party while she was partly drunk. Gradually, she started ignoring me (something I only realize now). 3 days after the kiss, I asked her out, and she said no, saying the maximum we would be would be friends.

I felt horrible and used obviously, but since I still love her as a person I was delighted with going back to being best friends. However, she continued to gradually ignore me (maybe because she felt awkward around me), and started complaining crazily about random things, like me responding to what her ex (which I thought she was friends with) commented on my FB wall (a comedy video, nothing relevant). She said I treated her awfully, which was completely untrue, since I have always treated her like my sister and best friend, and that I was rude to everyone.

Big mistake. You should have told her what you wanted. Instead you put yourself in that horrible place called "the friend zone".. Really, you say that you're in love with her and that you've been kissing. A better and more honest response would have been to tell her you want more than friendship. It's all or nothing, no "let's just be friends". Yes, it could mean your relationship ends there, or you'll get back as friends in a few months when you're over her... just don't ever accept the friend zone when you want more than just friends.

Last Friday, we had a college party, and when I arrived there and greeted her, she completely ignored me, and didn't want to talk to me.

I was completely PISSED.

Did you tell her? "I feel ignored and it's making me pissed. I don't have any regrets about what happened and ignoring it is not going to change anything, so either talk to me or we end this here".

Unfortunately, I chose to drink heavily, which was a huge mistake. Subconsciently wanting revenge, I called up a girl I knew she hated (Julie) and asked if I could go with her to her school's party. She accepted, and at the party I seduced her and we kissed. While I do think this girl is kind and attractive, I clearly did it out of spite, not only attraction.

This is a very immature and passive-agressive action. It's a consequence of avoiding the real issue and instead playing her games of ignoring and jealousy.

I am planning to tell everything to Francis the next day I see her, which will be Wednesday. Is this proper action? What should I do? Can I ever get my friends back? I am completely lost and seeking for help.

Tell what to whom? If you're just friends with Francis you don't owe it to her to tell who you kiss or sleep with. If Julie is getting the wrong idea about what you want from her you should make it clear where you stand.

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Big mistake. You should have told her what you wanted. Instead you put yourself in that horrible place called "the friend zone".. Really, you say that you're in love with her and that you've been kissing. A better and more honest response would have been to tell her you want more than friendship. It's all or nothing, no "let's just be friends". Yes, it could mean your relationship ends there, or you'll get back as friends in a few months when you're over her... just don't ever accept the friend zone when you want more than just friends.

.If I had followed this advice, she would have just been awkward and said no. The way I did it it's a lot easier to kiss her and try a relationship from that

Did you tell her? "I feel ignored and it's making me pissed. I don't have any regrets about what happened and ignoring it is not going to change anything, so either talk to me or we end this here".
I obviously was not going to put her on the spot 4 days after we kissed -- she was probably very confused and needed time.
This is a very immature and passive-agressive action. It's a consequence of avoiding the real issue and instead playing her games of ignoring and jealousy.
True, I admit I made a mistake.
Tell what to whom? If you're just friends with Francis you don't owe it to her to tell who you kiss or sleep with. If Julie is getting the wrong idea about what you want from her you should make it clear where you stand.

I know I don't know her, but she was my best friend and I felt I should be honest about what I did so she didn't discover the truth from someone else (highly likely).

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.If I had followed this advice, she would have just been awkward and said no. The way I did it it's a lot easier to kiss her and try a relationship from that

I was not reffering to when you kissed her. That was the good part. You wanted to kiss her, so you did. Well done. The problem is accepting her "let's just be friends". The proper response would have been: "Um... no.". Don't accept being just friends when you want more. Just tell her straight you want her.

I obviously was not going to put her on the spot 4 days after we kissed -- she was probably very confused and needed time.

Her confusion, which I doubt, is not your responsibility. If you have an issue, real or inveted, with her behavior, then raise that issue. What you did was you felt(notice the word felt) ignored and pissed. Instead of talking to her you ran away, got drunk and hooked up with another girl.

When you don't show her what you want and don't raise issues you're having with her, she's not going to trust you. That's why she thinks you're dishonest.

The right thing to do is to let her know whats going on with you. Don't put the responsibility of it on her, like "you're causing me to feel this way". Just tell her whats going on: "I feel pissed and ignored". And why wouldn't you put her on the spot 4 days after you kissed? Let her know where you stand on that issue.

True, I admit I made a mistake.

Good. Now also notice that the mistake was linked to the previous mistakes. You failed to be straight and dodged the issues, which led to a very poor decision.

I'm not trying to beat you up about it. What's done is done. But, there are important lessons to be learned so you can avoid future mistakes.

I know I don't know her, but she was my best friend and I felt I should be honest about what I did so she didn't discover the truth from someone else (highly likely).

Why did you feel that way? She tells you kissing was a mistake and that she wants to be just friends with you. Would it be dishonest not to tell her you kissed someone else? Why? You're just friends, right...?

If you're thinking about it just as friendship you wouldn't have any issue with honesty here. So what if she finds out later? You're just friends! ;)

Atleast I don't tell my female friends when I kiss someone Or, well, sometimes I do but that's because I like to tell them about good events in my life. The issue is, just as aequalsa put it, that you betrayed yourself - not Francis.

I'm not saying it was wrong to tell her. If you wanted to tell her, that's fine. However, there was more to tell. You regard her as more than a friend, something you failed to communicate earlier. That would have been the right thing to tell her: "I hooked up with Julie and we kissed. Now I feel bad about it. I was pissed because I felt rejected. The truth is I really like you and want to be more than just friends".

ASUK and franked like this

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Alfa, I believe you are right on almost every account. The only thing I disagree with you is that I really wanted (and do want) to going back to being just best friends.

Now Francis doesn't want to even talk to me, and says she will never be friend again. However, I talked with two of our great mutual friends who told me that she frequently does that and come back around later -- time will tell.

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I think it may have been a big mistake to try to move from a friendship to a romance when you were drunk. I don't get drunk often and avoid trying to convert friends to lovers without first talking about it explicitly with her. The trouble is, once you move past the friend part to the lover part, there is no turning back. Just asking is OK, but actually making a move on her out of your love for her without her at least implicit approval does put her in a bad spot. However, since it was not more than a kiss, it is probably repairable. Many women just don't seem to take it as a compliment that you want to sleep with them if they are "just friends." Not sure why and not sure if this is irrational; though, of course, the let's be lovers part ought to be taken very seriously. I've manage to remain friends with women I've wanted to sleep with, but only because they made their position clear and that the love was not mutual, so I didn't advance further (OK, a few times I tried, even after her saying NO, but I got over it). Certainly dating someone else out of spite for a girl that rejected you is the wrong way to go, as there was no love there and you are just trying to hurt someone's feelings. But I do agree with the responder who advised you to stop getting drunk and stop going to stupid parties where you are trying to impress or de-impress a girl.

On the other hand, I'm not sure one can do this in reverse -- i.e. move from a lover to "just a friend" if one has actually made romantic love to her. In one of Dr. Peikoff's podcasts, he says it's possible, but only after both have accepted it and have moved on. The problem is that love is different from friendship, they are not on the same continuum, so being rejected from love vs being rejected from friendship is of a different kind. In that regard, it's probably a good thing you only kissed the other girl instead of having slept with her.

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I am happy to say that I have completely moved on Francis and am now going out with Julie.

Francis and I met at a party, she then proceeded to dance with her date for 1 hour just beside where me and my friends were. She tried to greet me but I didn't respond.

If someday she comes at peace, we'll hopefully try to be friends again. No problem if that happens , though.

I'm glad that I have learned a lot with this situation:

- always think a lot before taking an important decision. like Warren Buffett says, you can always call someone a son-of-a-bitch tomorrow

- be careful mixing up friends and dates

- people will backstab you

Best regards,

Frank

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