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This Is The Kind Of Thread...

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which yes, is my fault.

http://www.politicalmachine.com/Forums.asp...AID=17858#68161

Most notably my later comments where I resort to sarcasm.

The thread relates to the ACLU opposing some measures regarding train security.

Of note, several people don't mind that some folks be subject to scrutiny while others go unnoticed. Either that, or they wouldn't mind if they instituted random checks and base security efforts on luck.

Finally, one person says

"Reply #23 By: MasonM -  6/11/2004 3:02:21 PM

After reading all of the comments on this I have to say that my mind has been changed. We must protect people's rights at any cost. So what if some people die in a bombing as a result of the lack of security? At least they died with their rights intact."

In following the thread, you can easily see he means it in the most sarcastic way.

My follow up was

"Reply #24 By: RationalCop -  6/11/2004 3:16:49 PM

Oh no, I think you miss the point. It's far better to have a good feeling of security, have some individuals lose their rights, and still have people die in a bombing. That's the best of all worlds." VES

Of course, my comment was sarcastic too. :D

VES

PS: I think I'm the only one on that web site that appreciates and tries to espouse the Objectivist point of view, at least as best as I understand it so far.

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The "anti-ACLU" crowd seem to be so irrational that I've almost given up trying to communicate with them. The ones who dislike the ACLU as a whole because of their second amendment stance are even worse.

Regarding the topic itself, I would have to disagree with you. I think random searches would be more logical than 'intelligently targetted' searches, simply because they are harder to circumvent. If you deliberately decide to search arab men while avoiding old white ladies, guess who suddenly becomes the safest target on which to smuggle your goods.

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I would have to disagree with you. I think random searches would be more logical than 'intelligently targetted' searches, simply because they are harder to circumvent.

But that wasn't my suggestion. My suggestion was target all individuals with the same level of scrutiny which would provide more effective security than random checks. As part of a contract to utilize mass transit, one can choose to submit to such scrutiny, or forego it by finding an alternate means of transportation.

Of course, most people didn't even realize how false a sense of security even that is. A terrorist would be far more successful attacking a train without ever getting on it. A truck loaded with explosives crashing into it at a crossing gate, sabotaging the track, etc. etc. The bypasses those security measures easily.

VES

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It is a no brainer that muslims and people of color should be profiled. Few persons of color should be able to get on a plain without being searched. You don't have a right to someone else's property. Random searches can be conducted on the rest of the population but obviously the first priority is to weed out those who look muslim. People's lives are at stake.

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It is a no brainer that muslims and people of color should be profiled.

My contention is why not scrutinize everyone that gets on a plane or train? Airports do a reasonably good job of scrutinizing everyone that gets on a plane, at the cost of some delay. IF saving lives is truly the focus, I don't see the point of selectively picking out some people, and not paying as much attention to others just for the sake of a little convenience. My experience is that security which is less than thorough or security that is random is more of an appearance of security to placate people than it is actually effective security.

VES

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Howdy All,

I am not sure where the quote is from, though I have heared it tossed around in a few placees.

It is supposedly attributed to an Israeli Security expert.

He is supposed to have said, "The difference between America and Israel, is that America searches for weapons, and Isreal searches for terrorsits."

Sorry I can't attribute it, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

My current opinion on the state of security in america can best be seen in the early part of the movie, "Airplane 2"

In one of the scenes we see a group of obviously muslim terrorists, passing though the metal detectors with machine guns and rocket launchers. The screeners let them through without blinking. The next person through the line is an elderly lady, who is immediately tackeled by security personnel.

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