John

Being a pro-choice Catholic is a contradiction. Pro-choice believes in the choice to have babies or not to have babies. Catholics believe in two things that contradict that. They believe an unborn child has a soul and is a human therefore it is wrong to kill it. They also believe that a child is a gift from god and it would be sinful to refuse a gift from god. A pro-choice Catholic does not deserve to be called either pro-choice or Catholic because he/she believes in a contradiction to their identity as pro-choice or Catholic. The identity of Objectivism is important for the same reason. It is ok to disagree but when someone evades the fact that they’re not an Objectivist or a student of Objectivism is wrong.

Nevermind its postnuke.

What software are you using for that site. It's very interesting.

But it is an initiation of force if at any time he does not agree and is forced to be a slave.

Well, since Wolf is not going to answer I'm going to try. A right defines what a man is allowed to do in society. A moral government will allow man to act morally because man's life requires it. Morality is the philosophic base. Since man's life is the base of morality it is also the base of rights. Which is why the right to life is the most basic right. Am I right?

Thanks guys. I'm glad I understood it right. Saying "reality is the axiom" doesn't include the fact that it is real. Or as OPAR says of existence "The concept does not specify that a phisical world exists." It also doesn't show that I can observe it and then identify it. Since I can observe it and identify it as existence I can say "Existence exists." I still think other philosophies derive all of their concepts from false axioms which is why they are wrong. I think the axioms are: For the mystics "god says what is real", for the subjectivists "I say what is real." They get their false concepts because their axioms are false. I think that answers theDude. The chart shows how the concepts are derived from the axiom existence exists and its corollaries concsiousness and identity. I don't know if the chart is right because I don't know all of the concepts but I think it will help me make the connections between the 5 branches.

In my notes I have: Axiom: perceptual self evidencies. Validation is: sense perception. Axiomatic Concepts: The identification of a primary fact of reality. Proof: The derivation of a conclusion from antecedent knowledge. The starting point is axioms. As I understand it reality is the axiom (Existance exists), Concsiousness and Identity are Axiomatic Concepts (or corollaries which makes them axioms), and in order to prove or validate a concept you have to show how it is derived from axioms (reality). What do axioms depend on? I thought it couldn't be an axiom if it depended on another concept. I think axioms do depend on concept formation in order to explicitly state them but not in order to be true (reality can exist without concsiousness, does not depend on it to be real). Is any of this wrong? If so how would I fix it? [edit] This is what I'm trying to say and what I think started the last few posts. [/edit]

theDude: http://importanceofphilosophy.com/Chart.html The above link is from a webpage RationalEgoistSG pointed out in a previous post. It shows how all concepts are derived from axioms. I'm also pretty sure that all concepts in all philosophies are derived from their axioms.

I'm going to be going on vacation for the next week. After almost two years of year round school and work (at sear auto center) I'm going to be camping and fishing for a week. If I don't reply to anything for a while you now know why.

Well so far I've read parts of Capitalism: The Unknow Ideal and OPAR. I've read most of the articles at the Ayn Rand Institute. I've taken notes on Peikoff's online Intro to Objectivism (except the Q&A/Part 2). I'm taking notes on the Five Hour Seminar. I'm reading Atlas Shrugged for the third time (I love that book). The Fountain Head, We The Living, Anthem. Thats about it. I first learned about Objectivism after reading Anthem in high school and I want to learn more. I looked up the price for the books I need in that guide at the Ayn Rand Bookstore and I'm thinking about buying the first of them.

I think Open Source is a good way to get a job. If you start an Open Source project where any developer can contribute modifications or new features you as the leader will have to decide which are good, bad or need improvment and then add them to the project. This will show that you can judge other peoples work and decide what to use in your project. Of course you will also be the main developer for the project and will create TODO lists and plan out where the project is going. If you publish the TODO lists other developers can do the things on the list. A good Open Source project will show the leader's leadership skills and the developer's development skills. It is a way to gain experience that will profit the individuals in the future. I don't see how it can be a way for them to gain profit unless they use the software to start a business or a business pays them to make it (in which case it would be a loss for that business unless the business uses it for profit). Using Open Source projects for your own profit is a good thing. It is good for the developers of that project because it shows that the project was successful (then they can get good jobs and make other companies money) and it's good for you because you are making profit. I can't think of anything evil about Open Source. As long as it benifits you as the developer of Open Source or you as the user of Open Source it can only be a good thing. Note DonGalt: I don't know what JAVA has to do with Open Source. It's a well documented proprietary language owned by sun. Free to use (under license) but not Open Source. Could you explain?

I have OPAR and I've been taking notes on it but its starting to get complex. I've also been taking notes on A Five-Hour Seminar in RealAudio. I'm also going to start following this guide. The five our seminar has helped me a lot in understanding rational selfishness, and morality and I hope the guide will make the learning more efficient. I'm basically going through all of the introductions until I get the basic idea. Then I plan to get all the details from OPAR and others. Also http://rationalegoist.rationalmind.net/ has helped me understand current news better. Thanks RationalEgoistSG This is the best plan I can think of.

Of course some people might not know which branch their question or comment belongs to but that shouldn't happen if there is a good description in the forum description. I think it's a good idea because if I'm studying politics I won't have search through all the topics looking for posts on politics.

I suggest separate forums for the five branches of objectivism since this is a site for objectivism which has five branches.

A few days ago I was thinking about doing the same thing at http://www.terrygoodkind.com/forums/ Terry Goodkind is a fan of Ayn Rand and a few of people like to talk about her on the forum. Also some of the people like to bring up topics like selfishness and sacrafice because of the Terry's books. The problem is that not only would we get a few people that want to learn more about objectivism (like me) but all the mystics that use their feelings as reasons for sacraficing and even being selfish. I havn't said anything about this forum because I don't know what type of site this is supposed to be. If it's mainly for debate with mystics then I will post something but if it's mainly for learning about objectivism then I could just send private messages to a few of them that I think would be interested. I also think there needs to be some ground rules for what types of posts are allowed. There was one post by a guest a couple of days ago that got deleted (The communism is inevitable post). Why? I don't know but it would be a good thing to know what is allowed and what is not before posting.

I thought that Microsofts IIS supported JSP or a plugin of some sort. I was going to try to get it set up with IIS since I bought xp pro.

I thought about calling my mom and telling her but I didn't because I thought I should tell her in person. I don't want to be confrontational either. When the time comes I will tell them that reality is real and indepenent of consciousness even god's (which is why he is not real). If they ask me to explain I will. Maybe it won't be that bad.

I know it's a strange combination but if it was run on a linux machine it would make sense (postgresql, apache/tomcat). I'm going get this all set up on a linux machine just as soon as I get my ethernet card (why is it so hard to get an ethernet card to work with linux?). I don't know if I told you but what's even stranger about it is that I run tomcat and the jdk from my 250 zip disk. Not all the computers at school have tomcat but they do have zip drives so I just keep it on my zip along with all my work files. It also saves time from copying the files back and forth. I haven't learned anything about the other languages out their except how to spell them but I don't think jsp is that complex. It has all the HTTP headers in two objects (request, response), out (for printing), session (for keeping info), and an easy way to put code in the html. You can even make objects like ShoppingCart and make their scope session with out having to save cookies or extend the url (it's automatic). The part that I like most is the JDBC. It's a lot like using a database in Visual BASIC except it connects directly to the database without going through ODBC although it also supports ODBC connections. I havn't even mentioned java beans, or tag libraries. The coolest thing, which I havn't done yet, is connecting to a database through a java applet. You could make the administration of an entire website through one java applet and it could be used on any browser that supports applets. It could even use swing and look like any visual basic application and have html previews, file uploading, and query analizering. I think it would be cool to run this applet from a cell phone. Anyway ASP, PHP, I would like to learn them all but their is so much to learn with JAVA first (as long as sun doesn't go under). Gabriel: I'm going to look into Hibernate.

You are right. I shouldn't feel guilty for not having faith and I shouldn't allow my parents to feel safe because of a lie. My family is Catholic. As far as the other people go I do not depend on them and I don't care about their opinions. I shouldn't of said they are the hardest part about this but they can still do something to me (like the people who sent you hate mail). Either way it will be by their choice. Not mine. It is the same with my parents. Honesty is the best policy. Thanks for the help.

I get it. The goal of an organization should not lead to it's own destruction. It should lead to it's own growth. I wasn't thinking of the end results. I was just now thinking it might be worth "dying" for the cause but that would be wrong to because the "killing" would not be worth the guaranteed "dying" in the end. It would be living off the soon to be dead not it's own creative ability. It wouldn't even be "dying" for the causes of Objectivism since the effects of Objectivism are for life not death. The right type of organization would be like the Ayn Rand Institute. It would advocate Objectivism and defend Objectivism from attack (the side-benifit). I understand what you are saying and I will keep that in mind while I'm making the website.

I'm not sure that it would be anti-intellect. It would be more like anti-wrong but not even that. It would be pointing out the mistakes in their philosphy and correcting them. I've started reading Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand and the book does this. It starts with the three axioms and shows the types of philosophies that disregard them and why they are wrong in doing that. But it only does it after it explains the axioms. So any article would have to explain the objective facts and why the groups ideas do not observe the facts. I know a lot of site explain why a groups actions are wrong but they never explain why the ideas that causes them are wrong. I don't think pointing out false ideas can ever have negative effects. It allows people to correct their errors. Before I knew about Ayn Rand I had a lot of false ideas. Reading about Objectivism, and learning that some of my ideas were false, has had only positive effects on my life.

I would also like to expose these types of groups and tell the world what they really are. I would start by finding out the groups mission statement and writing why it is wrong. Then I would find all of the actions they take to make the mission a success and inform people about it by saying "see this is what they do and this is what it means." I've been making a web site where I could do this and I hope to have it done by august. By then I should be able to pay for the hosting. demo of site I found the elf guidelines: To inflict economic damage on those profitting from the destruction and exploitation of the natural environment. To reveal and educate the public on the atrocities committed against the earth and all species that populate it. To take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human.

As far as my mom goes I have to tell her that I don't believe in god because I am agreeing with her by not only by my silence but when I go to church whenever I go home. The hardest part about this is it's not just my parents but my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, brother, sister, and the priest that know about it. I don't think a simple "I don't agree with you" will go very well but it is all I can say since reason wont work. Before I graduated High School I told her that my goal in life was to be happy and she told me that it does always work that way (this was before I even knew about objectivism). Since then I explained to her why sacrafice to others is not needed to be happy and she said that god wants us to make sacrafices. For now I tell her that I'm trying to find the truth in it. Since she believes god is the truth she understands and it has worked so far. Is it right to lie to my family and go to church with them because I don't want them to hate me? I don't go home very much and go to church even less..... I've just realized I go for the worst reason: because I don't want to hurt their feelings. I can't allow their feelings to make decisions for me and I have to tell them that too. Actually thats probably the only thing they will understand since you are supposted to accept god on your own without being forced. I'm going to go think about this more.

I'm actually going to be graduating from Pittsburgh Technical Institute on October 14 in computer programming. So no I'm not in High School but I don't have a college education on math or english either. I guess you could say I'm not a "well rounded" person as far as education goes. It's been worth it though. I've earned a 4.0, perfect attendance, certification from Carnegie Technology Education, and when I'm done with my internship I will get an associates degree. In my second communications class I had to make a persuasive speach about anything. I chose the elf becuase I was already reading about them and I wanted to tell people about why the elf is wrong. What do you think about the elf so far? I'm going to start another topic for my religious parents since it's off topic.

I understand BCNF it just makes sure all alternate keys are identified right? 4NF I think I would need an example to understand. 5NF I think just makes sure all foriegn keys are made in the tables that should have them. DKNF makes sure all the constraints are defined ex. if there is a gender attribute it can only have the value of male or female. I think I can figure it out. My class is an online course from Carnegie Technology Education. It's not really a database design class so they probably just wanted to go over the basics of it. The next unit is on transactions and indexes and the one after that is on current trends in databases. The whole idea of this course is to create an online bookstore using PostgreSQL and JSP. This is the strangest combination I've ever worked with. We use cygwin to run PostgreSQL on our windows systems and we use Apache Tomcat for windows to run JSP. I'm glad I have lots of memory.