Another Beheading

[Yes]

Is it me, or have peaceniks surreptitiously switched from claiming that the war fought for lower oil prices to claiming that it was for higher oil prices?

David, the peaceniks aren't making any sense whatsoever with their specious claims about blood for oil.

The fact remains that less than 1/4 of our oil comes from the Middle East. And even at full tilt Iraq is going to furnish only 1/10th of that oil. If oil is even an issue it should be for Europe, since they get lots of oil from the Middle East.

[Yes]

No, they don't "have to". They should, but it isn't required that foreign governments respect rights in order for Americans to have the right to exist and work in those foreign countries.....

David, I'm talking about the function of legitimate foreign governments.

Like America, that function is to protect the rights of individuals.

Government is supposed to do that whether it be America or elsewhere.

In my opinion, government is illegitimate if it serves itself at the expense of those it is obliged to protect.

When such governments like Saudi Arabia, for example, fails in its role, then all manner of business is placed at peril as mob rule, aka terrorism, seizes control by force.

[MisterSwig]

The issue it seems to me is that we are surprised by it [Paul Johnson's beheading], when we should not be ... To go there [saudi Arabia] as a westerner, and more importantly an American is foolish.

You concoct this ridiculous premise that we are surprised by Johnson's death (Who is surprised?), then you move onto your more fundamental belief that Johnson was "foolish."

What is your purpose in calling this man a "fool?"

Where is your outrage toward militant Islam?

[meganfiala]

I have to agree with pv. How can you be shocked at the beheading of an American in a sea of American-hating 'militant' Islamist? It is one thing to be shocked personally and outraged that ones values are being attacked, but it is another to have not foreseen and predicted something of the like happening when there are still Americans who insist on putting their life on the line in the middle East.

[MisterSwig]

I have to agree with pv. How can you be shocked at the beheading of an American in a sea of American-hating 'militant' Islamist? It is one thing to be shocked personally and outraged that ones values are being attacked, but it is another to have not foreseen and predicted something of the like happening when there are still Americans who insist on putting their life on the line in the middle East.

WHO IS SHOCKED?!? WHO, AFTER 9/11, IS SURPRISED BY THE EVIL ACTS OF MILITANT ISLAM?!?

What is the point of laying such a blatantly false foundation for your belief that Paul Johnson should have "foreseen and predicted" his own beheading?

Do you really think that you are safer from militant Islam where you live? A secret terrorist cell in your city could be plotting your beheading this very moment.

We are all in Paul Johnson's position. All of our lives are in danger of being cut short by militant Islam. Did 9/11 not prove that to you? Nowhere are you safe from the wrath of the holy warriors of Islam.

[meganfiala]

I withdraw my previous post.

[pvtmorriscsa]

WHO IS SHOCKED?!? WHO, AFTER 9/11, IS SURPRISED BY THE EVIL ACTS OF MILITANT ISLAM?!?

What is the point of laying such a blatantly false foundation for your belief that Paul Johnson should have "foreseen and predicted" his own beheading?

Do you really think that you are safer from militant Islam where you live? A secret terrorist cell in your city could be plotting your beheading this very moment.

We are all in Paul Johnson's position. All of our lives are in danger of being cut short by militant Islam. Did 9/11 not prove that to you? Nowhere are you safe from the wrath of the holy warriors of Islam.

To begin with, I for one was not overtly shocked by the September 11th attacks. I was appalled and overwhelmed by the scale to be sure, but not shocked. However many people, (and realize I am not suggesting any members of this forum, but damn look around), are indeed surprised by every act of terrorism.

Now as for Paul Johnson, he was a fool. He of all people knew the risks he was taking by being there having lived in Saudi Arabia for 20? years. Than again if he had properly judged the risk he would have left before he was snatched off the street. That or hire a bunch of non-muslim bodyguards.

I have noticed in your previous post that you blame militant islam, and consider them a threat. I think you perhaps think that my lack of outrage stems from an inability to think of militant islam as a threat. I don’t blame militant islam, instead I blame all islam.

Islam I think is the biggest threat to Western Civilization, let alone the advancement of humanity. If islam wins, and the West is overcome, it will plunge the world in to a dark age of which we can only with horror imagine.

The attacks on 9/11 spurred me to conduct an in depth study of islam. The sum of which was a complete reversal on my stance. I used to believe that it was the “Bad” muslims misinterpreting the koran that we had to be wary of, and that there were “Good” muslims who were essentially harmless.

Many people have said that any religion can be perverted by radicals to evil. Of course as an objectivist I think all religions are crap, but I thought those that held this belief were right. The belief being that the koran, just as the torah or the bible, could be and indeed had been used as a justification for evil deeds. To those people I say read the koran. study islamic history both politically and culturally. Hell look at the name Islam itself. It means SUBMISSION to the will of allah.

When I read the koran, admittedly in an English Translation, I began to feel some unease regarding my idea of the “good” muslim. While the torah was written over hundreds of years of persecution, conquest, re-conquest, subjugation, and diaspora, the new testament sprang out of the idea of the divine martyr, the koran springs from war.

Don’t take this as a defense of any of these texts. They all seem to me to be primarily death cults. As in the idea that if you live a “good” life you will be rewarded when you die. The veneration of death permeates all three religions, but not so much as it does in islam.

Then I read, “A Crisis in Islam”, by Bernard Lewis if memory serves. He spurred me to delve in the history of islam. Notice I did not say the history of Saudi Arabia, or any other specific muslim country? That is because muslims think of all countries that have been converted by jihad, or voluntarily, as part of islam. For example to islam, Spain is an “occupied” territory. I was not surprised when Madrid was attacked. In the eyes of islam it is an important target.

This lead me to the question of why islam must attack the west.

At first I thought it was because of the Crusades. When in fact it turns out the Crusades were more or less a response from christian Europe to the muslim incursions into Europe. After all the muslims invaded the west first when they invaded Spain, three hundred years earlier. The attempt to strike back was half hearted and doomed to failure. The Crusades after all were led by mystics and looters.

This does not explain why they attacked though. The reason islam attacked the West in the past, continues to attack the west in the present and will continue fighting Western civilization in the future is the religion itself. The koran calls for all muslims to further the cause of allah, as defined in the koran and compel others to submit to the will of allah. For any Star Trek fans out there, picture the Borg. You will be assimilated. Well in the eyes of islam you WILL submit to the will of allah.

So believe me I understand the dangers. I understand full well why I as an individual am a target. I also understand full well that muslim crazies are much more dangerous in a country like Saudi Arabia, where the majority population is likely to either turn a blind eye to their actions or even outright support them. In America on the other hand this is not the case. I understand the dangers, believe me. However, the danger I face is no where near the danger that is faced by any westerner that ventures into the middle east.

I am not a fool because I live in a country that has involuntarily been put into a condition of danger by irrational, mystic, wackos, but I would be a fool if I ventured without proper security into an area that was controlled by irrational, mystic, wackos.

I will grant that all in the west are in danger. Paul Johnson, however voluntarily put himself into even greater danger, which in my opinion is extremely foolish.

As I said before, I stand by my original posting.

[MisterSwig]

I will grant that all in the west are in danger.  Paul Johnson, however voluntarily put himself into even greater danger, which in my opinion is extremely foolish.

Yes, but you don't know why, exactly, Johnson put himself in that situation. And to call him a fool, I think you need to know why he did it. There may be very good reasons for why he lived and worked in Saudi Arabia. My point is that you are calling him a fool without knowing anything about the man, except that he was in Saudi Arabia. Do you think that is sufficient knowledge to judge him a fool?

Thanks for your views on Islam. Essentially, I agree with you. I name militant Islam (or Islamic totalitarianism) as the enemy in this war, because I believe there are Islamic people who presently do not want to rule the world by force. They are trying to modernize and pacify the religion. And they are not a military threat to America.

If you want to blame something for our current situation, I would blame fundamentalist Christianity. If we weren't so altruistic, America would have stopped the militant Islamic movement a long time ago.

[oldsalt]

pv: I came to essentially the same conclusion after the same kind of study, but I did so after the embassy takeover in 1979. Not one thing has happened to make me change the assessment I came to then. When people say that the administration ought to have known about 9-11, I agree, but not because I think they had some secret information about a specific time, date and method of attack. They ought to have known because the enemy told them so over and over again, and backed every vile word with equally vile action. That it was allowed to come to 9-11 is a travesty and a failure on the part of both the government AND the polity. Even now, there is a large portion of the population who does not think we are at war, or who believes that we started it and ought to give in.

It is the hand-wringers who have put us all in danger, not those who brave the world and its dangers (which are always there). I think you do Mr. Johnson a terrible disservice by labeling him a fool because he placed himself in harm's way. Would you say that a spy is foolish because he does his work without a swat team? Mr. Johnson was there doing his job, and doing it under very difficult and dangerous circumstances. To call him a fool is to deny that he might just possibly have had the brains to realize it was dangerous, weighed those dangers, and persevered anyway. The fact that he lost the gamble he took doesn't make him a fool.