Greek History. (ancient)

[pvtmorriscsa]

Howdy All,

Last week, I finished up a book called "Tides of War", by Steven Pressfield. It is a work of fiction about the life and Alchibiedes and the Peloponnisian War.

Seeing as the book is a work of fiction, I wanted to do some fact checking. I have been doing a good bit of reading on the net, but I was wondering if anyone might suggest any good books on the subject. Further my online research spurred me to start a general overview of ancient greek history, and culture. So any book suggestions in that line would also be appreciated.

My major area of interest and study is the "War Between the States", as some might already have guessed by my username. Sadly though I have discovered I know very little of the history of Greece.

I've read about the Romans, The Egyptians, the Macedonians, and the Persians. It dawned on me that aside from having read Homer, I had done almost no reading specifically on Greece.

I have a pretty good understanding of the Greek contribution to western civilazation as a whole but not the specifics. I am on a course to rectify that. So any suggested reading would be much valued.

[oldsalt]

You can find good translations of source works online at Perseus, as well as a timeline. (I find it more valuable to read the original sources before I read any evaluations. Even when the history is wrong, you get a much better flavor for how a particular people viewed themselves and this enriches any history.)

It's been a while since I visited the site, but I seem to remember that they also have a decent bibliography.

[AwakeAndFree]

For a reliable history of the Peloponnisian War check out Thucydidis, who's considered the "first scientific historian" and lived at that time. His HISTORIAE LIBRI I-VIII deal specifically with the Peloponnisian War.

I just browsed through the Hebrew translation, but it seemed quite readable.

[oldsalt]

You can find a translation of Thucydidis at Perseus. And I second Eran's post!

[Montesquieu]

Yes, read Thucydides, he's very good. Some of the other Greek historians also give very exciting and informative narratives, especially Herodotus and Xenophon (though they don't talk about the Peleponnesian War).

[Free Capitalist]

Yes, I double second ( ) Thucydides. I don't think he wrote anything else besides his history of the Pelopponnesian War, so I'm not entirely sure what Eran is referring to. Thucydides was one of the Athenian generals during the war, and witnessed the entire thing firsthand. He then wrote the entire war down in an objective and scientific style, which nonetheless has a passionate narrative and some very moving and memorable passages. His mix of objectivity and passion has caused later generations to call him the greatest historian, ever, and he deserves it fully.

If you're interested in specific men of Ancient times, and would like to learn more about the colorful personalities of Ancient Greek history, you should check out Plutarch, a Greek historian of 1st century AD, and also of very high quality. His aim is different from that of most historians, however, for he has a strong philosophical angle. His whole aim in studying (and teaching) history is to study (and teach) men's characters, their virtues, their vices, and how those abstract notions play out in the real world, how they affect the person's own happiness and success in life, and also how they affect the life of everyone around them (sometimes affecting them in very drastic ways). There are lots of moral lessons one can learn from Alcibiades' life, for example, as you probably realized already. Anyway, the title of his entire work is called Lives, and it's split into particular Lives, i.e. Life of Alcibiades, or Life of Nicias, etc.

Plutarch also writes about lives of great Romans (i.e. Life of Crassus), and then has a third part, where he draws parallels between famous Greek men and their famous Roman counterparts (both men related in some way), to compare the two, and underline the value one can derive by examining their choices and actions. So, for example, Nicias is compared to Crassus. Alcibiades is compared to a very colorful and memorable ancient Roman, Coriolanus. For the last two, both were equally impetuous beyond restraint, both were unbeatable generals and warriors (Alcibiades was an Olympic champion), both were betrayed by their country, and both betrayed that country in return, leading the armies of its greatest enemy and single-handedly bringing their (previously invincible) native city to the brink of destruction.

[Free Capitalist]

After double checking, actually Alcibiades' Olympic win was in the chariot races - he was rich, so hired some good charioteers and horses to ensure a win for himself. But he was very well known for his audacity and courage in battle, which is why the Athenians valued him so much (and also due to his good looks and charm).

As an interesting sidenote, Alcibiades was a long-time student of Socrates, and the two served together during a number of wars. For all of Socrates' emphasis on self-restraint and temperance, he couldn't fully imbue those qualities in his student. If anyone interfered with Alcibiades or contradicted him in any fashion, Alcibiades wouldn't stand for it and used his physical strength and wealth to put the man down. He also used his presence and wealth for many things beneficial to Athens, being both an imposing and benevolent figure in the city. It's no surprise that most people thought he would attempt to acquire tyranny, his imperial personality naturally lending to that assumption. Socrates was the only man that Alcibiades permitted to be lectured by, and constantly sought advice and insights from; no one else had respite from his unabashed impertinence and impetuousness.

[msb]

Here you go:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext...ter=1:section=1

[jedymastyr]

if you happen to find that one-paragraph-per-page thing annoying (perhaps I'm just not using the site correctly), you can find the full text on one page here:

http://www.gutenberg.net/1/plpwr10.txt

[Free Capitalist]

I prefer to use real-life books, but I've found www.textkit.com to have some excellent electronic versions (you can also download books on ancient greek and latin from there).

Anyway, Thucydides is here:

http://www.textkit.com/learn/ID/3/author_is/2/

Plutarch is here:

http://www.textkit.com/learn/ID/47/author_is/9/

Others are here:

http://www.textkit.com/author.php

[Free Capitalist]

Ancient Greek warfare, visualized:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/rometo...ns.html?page=85

[pvtmorriscsa]

Ancient Greek warfare, visualized:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/rometo...ns.html?page=85

I think those screen shots are from Rome:Total War, which is a game I have been eagerly awaiting since the first time I heard of it over a year ago.

If it is as good as the other Total War titles, it will be awesome.

[Prae]

this is just a bit of greek history/historical contribution i thought people might appreciate. there was a greek astronomer/scientist (i believe he was named aristarchus) who discovered that the sun was the center of the solar system. i always like to tell people this when they say that ancient people believed the world was on the backs of turtles etc.

[Betsy]

this is just a bit of greek history/historical contribution i thought people might appreciate. there was a greek astronomer/scientist (i believe he was named aristarchus) who discovered that the sun was the center of the solar system. i always like to tell people this when they say that ancient people believed the world was on the backs of turtles etc.

Also tell them about Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276-194 BC) who not only knew that the world was round, but measured its circumference with an ingenious method to an extroardinary degree of accuracy.

Read all about this and his other amazing accomplishments here.

[Free Capitalist]

<FC: Moved to History forum>