Tabitha Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) I work at a public high school (... which could be a whole other problem/thread in and of itself). One of my co-workers started a community service club, and has once said that she thinks community service should be a graduation requirement for all students. I disagreed outright, stating that this mindset will only breed resentment in the kids. However, the deeper issue is - and I didn't quite know how to get into this without going on a longwinded spiel re: Objectivism and why education should be privatized - is that individuals don't owe "society" their time or anything else. Furthermore, the truth is that few, if any, students are interested in community service for its own sake. The most active group members are only doing it because colleges like to see it on applications. Anyway, this thread is really more of a rant than anything else. Have others had similar experiences? Edited February 20, 2009 by Tabitha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 All the time. My short answer is that I'm against initiating force, no matter what. From then on, a consistent "Oh yeah? Why?" defeats any argument in favor of initiating force, especially since people don't tend to offer any arguments, only arbitrary opinions. They quickly agree to disagree, and we move on to more productive activities than arguing about politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabitha Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 All the time. My short answer is that I'm against initiating force, no matter what. From then on, a consistent "Oh yeah? Why?" defeats any argument in favor of initiating force, especially since people don't tend to offer any arguments, only arbitrary opinions. They quickly agree to disagree, and we move on to more productive activities than arguing about politics. That's a productive way to go about it. But to play devil's advocate, what if they respond with something like, "well, if you're against all force, are you saying kids shouldn't be forced to go to school in the first place?" Though, to that, I suppose I could respond by arguing for private education... wherein parents and students wouldn't be forced into anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ellison Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 That's a productive way to go about it. But to play devil's advocate, what if they respond with something like, "well, if you're against all force, are you saying kids shouldn't be forced to go to school in the first place?" Though, to that, I suppose I could respond by arguing for private education... wherein parents and students wouldn't be forced into anything. Yeah, that's the error of my claim, but you went there because you recognized it (being an Objectivist). If someone does that, then I have to correct myself, but the people I tend to avoid having this type of discussions with ususally try to come up with justifications for taxes or some other illegitimate action by the government, not parent-child relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 That's a productive way to go about it. But to play devil's advocate, what if they respond with something like, "well, if you're against all force, are you saying kids shouldn't be forced to go to school in the first place?"And they'd be right, of course. It is for teachers to decide what the kids should do. So, the objection has to be that this ought not to be in a good curriculum. Within the context of public schools, then mandatory service is the teaching of ideology. In essence, it violates the church-state (which is actually a morality-state) divide. Secondarily, you can use the fact that kids are cynical about it to explain why such things actually backfire if they're forced. In other words, if you put on your "service is good" hat, you can still conclude that "there is no coercion in morality" and that instead of fostering altruism, making it a requirement would undercut the moral lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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