dollardoctrinaire Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 What are the members' comments on Irish demands for independent North Ireland or union with the Republic of Ireland? I 'm not sure if supporting the northern Irish people here would be moral or not. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 That whole mess seems to be driven by two facts: religion (pfft) and tribalism (pfft). If the Northern Irish people end up being freer and prosperous by joining the RoI, that will surely only be an accidental by-product of a basically irrational political squabble. AFAIK, that does not actually figure into the thinking of the nationalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollardoctrinaire Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Are you not discounting the tiny factor of British imperialism that has been oppressing the Irish over these centuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Are you not discounting the tiny factor of British imperialism that has been oppressing the Irish over these centuries?I'm totally ignoring it because it's irrelevant. The evil exploitive English Empire of a couple of centuries ago is gone, and the question now is whether the UK is a free nation or a slave nation. It's a free nation, not the slave nation dominated by George 3. It's irrational of the Irish to think that joining the RoI will somehow change the facts of history. And British imperialism and oppression is not a current fact. If the question is "Should Northern Ireland pursue a political alliance that will result in greater respect for individual rights within its borders", then the answer is clearly "yes". But that question is not a real question in Northern Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourcet Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 What are the members' comments on Irish demands for independent North Ireland or union with the Republic of Ireland? I 'm not sure if supporting the northern Irish people here would be moral or not. Any suggestions? You have to look at what they are trying to establish politically, and although religion plays a part, the republicans wanted to create a socialist state, however I don't know what they want now. If they want to create a capitalist state whereby individual rights are protected then of course it would be moral to support them as the UK is not capitalist. If they want to establish a communist state then obviously it would be immoral to support them as they would deny individual rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollardoctrinaire Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 bourcet, I don't know what they stand for. So I asked the question. David, have a look at this: Bloody Sunday (Irish: Domhnach na Fola)[1]—sometimes called the Bogside Massacre[2]—was an incident in Derry,[3] Northern Ireland, on 30 January 1972. Twenty-seven civil rights protesters were shot by members of the 1st Battalion of the British Parachute Regiment during a Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association march in the Bogside area of the city.[4] Thirteen people, seven of whom were teenagers, died immediately, while the death of another person 4½ months later has been attributed to the injuries he received on the day. Two protesters were injured when they were run down by army vehicles.[5] Many witnesses, including bystanders and journalists, testify that all those shot were unarmed. Five of those wounded were shot in the back.[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 David, have a look at this:Yeah, I'm familiar with The Troubles. What exactly does this supposedly show about British imperialism? The primary question that has to be raised is, who is/are/were the competent authorities in Northern Ireland, given that Northern Ireland is part of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uriah Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) I'd like to recommend on this work by the Irish economist Edmund Shanahan. you can download it directly from the link. I have strong feelings about the Irish case. There should be no doubt that the first to be blame are the "Brits", but just as David said it's an old story and what looks like a big issue from an Irish perspective might seems almost trivial from a British perspective. The term Irish-republicanism is so wide that there cannot be one answer for your question. Edited November 1, 2009 by Uriah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollardoctrinaire Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) ~ Edited November 4, 2009 by dollardoctrinaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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