Sleep minimization: to what extent is it possible?

[ironworks soundlabs]

I'm with Free Capitalist: give me eight hours. I may not get cranky, but I will feel dull both physically and mentally. When I was younger, though, I could---and did---get by on much less, and all-nighters when working to meet a deadline were not uncommon (though dreaded). Given the variety of responses here, it's simply an individual thing: I was tempted to say it was related to age, but then Burgess and Betsy blew that theory.

me too

I am young, but I still require 8 hours of sleep a night. I do so much during the day that a sound nights sleep is essential to me. If I get any less sleep I am falling asleep when I get out of work. The time frame between 6 pm and 11 pm are the most important times of the day for me, as that is when I am engaged in my highest levels of mental concentration.

[Charles]

This is a subject that fascinates me, Im currently preparing a lecture on it as a part of my course (neuroscience) and will post a detailed summary of different areas involved sometime. But I will make a few comments in response to some observations:

- babies average sleep around 16hrs a day, adults 7-8 and older people 4-6.

- The Pineal Gland (infamous for Descartes incorrect assertion that it was the seat of the soul) calcifies as you age. It produces melatonin in measure to response to your circadian rhythms. Circa(about) dies (a day)

- circadian rhythm is 'photoentrained' - i.e. a 24 hrs cycle biologically programmed by detection of light by retinal cells. (never remove a blind mans eyes - the cells are different from those used in vision and usually still active in the blind)

-as many of you will no doubt have experienced burning the midnight oil your bodies core temperature drops at night - I wonder if this can be linked to older people 'feeling the cold' more - their clock gradually screws up, they require less sleep and it is unlikely that the increased waking time will be complemented with the physiological benefits of the youthful waking hours (i.e. increased temperature/metabolism) -- in fact Id ask any of the more senior members to comment - do you feel colder as you get older? does it feel similar to that cold sensation felt staying up into hours your usually asleep at?

- Though excercise no doubt increases metabolism and bloodflow to brain making for a more alert waking period I would note that some suggest the purpose of sleep, at least REM sleep, might be to process/reprogram newly acquired information and experience....furthermore...

- adolescents/young adults require significantly more sleep than children or adults...taking this and the above into account It would suggest that university education would be well complemented by regular and substanstial sleeping periods.. though quality of sleep is just as important as quantity and perhaps short, deep sleep accompanied by good chemical balance and darkness, the same time each night is more suitable, perhaps even more effective, for the student lifestyle, than long interrupted periods of sleep.

Valerian Root can be taken to induce sleep, deepen it and reduce grogginess in the mornings - and in my, and others experience increase dreaming, or at least memory of dreaming. Its available commonly in a capsule, or there is tea (not nice) and less common is the ground root itself.

For the last two weeks I have been doing Bikram Yoga at 6.45 each morning whcih requires getting up at 5.45, although I have been going to bed earlier at 23.00 I have found it increase alertness throughout the day, decreased my appetite aswell as obvious benefits to flexibility and strength. This form of yoga is patented by Bikram Choudury, and is a series of 26 postures done over 1.30hrs in a 40C dry heated room. Its become quite popular in the City and I gather Richard Nixon actually practiced with Bikram. check out http://www.bikramyoganyc.com/ Americans and www.bikramyoga.co.uk/ English - they seem to be springing up in a lot of international cities.

[ironworks soundlabs]

Great post Charles!

I am fascinated by neuroscience, and I am very interested to see what neuroscience has to say about sleep.

[stephen_speicher]

-as many of you will no doubt have experienced burning the midnight oil your bodies core temperature drops at night - I wonder if this can be linked to older people 'feeling the cold' more - their clock gradually screws up, they require less sleep and it is unlikely that the increased waking time will be complemented with the physiological benefits of the youthful waking hours (i.e. increased temperature/metabolism)

This has been studied, to some degree. For instance, in one paper[*], for subjects that did not suffer from sleep-disturbance, the elderly demonstrated no differences in quality of sleep as compared with the middle-aged subjects, but the occurrence of their minimum body temperature was noticeably earlier. Yet, another elderly group who sufferred from sleep disturbance had a smaller proportion of REM sleep, more waking time after beginning sleep, and shorter total sleeping time, but their body temperature rhythym was in sync with the elderly but non sleep-disturbed subjects. So, while the circadian rhythym may have changed in the elderly subjects, it appears that temperature-related changes are, at most, just a part of the process which results in physiological changes. If you search the literature you will find more on this.

[*] S.S. Campbell and P.J. Murphy, Relationships between sleep and body temperature in middle-aged and older subjects, Journal of the American Geriatrics Society, Vol. 46, No. 4, pp. 458-462, April 1998.

in fact Id ask any of the more senior members to comment - do you feel colder as you get older?

I feel warmer, not colder, but I moved from New York City to Southern California.

[Charles]

Thankyou Stephen - will do.

Btw, what is your profession? For some reason I recall physicist but that might just be because of your picture and knowledge of the subject in previous topics.

[stephen_speicher]

Thankyou Stephen - will do.

You're welcome.

Btw, what is your profession? For some reason I recall physicist but that might just be because of your picture and knowledge of the subject in previous topics.

See this post.

[ex_banana-eater]

Charles, are you aware of what type of light inhibits the melatonin release? I know that different types of photo waves are produced by the sun and artificial lighting, in different amounts. It would be interesting to manufacture a light bulb that had allowed the stimulation of melatonin release because it decreased the amounts of light that agonizes the retinal cells, to use at night.

[TCEnglish]

I feel that I am wasting time when I sleep. Maybe it is just a phase; currently, I sleep an average of 4-5 hours per night. I am exceedingly healthy; however, one should consider that I am only twenty years old, work-out daily, and have an exceedingly healthy diet. I would probably attribute my well-being to being health consciousness in other areas of my life...By the way, I don't know if this will answer your question or not, but I run 3-4 miles per day (and still, I avoid sleeping!)