Business Ethics

[JASKN]

I was reading recent comments about a small survey of Americans' views on atheists, and a post by Toolboxnj got me thinking about business ethics:

I've accepted the fact that there are people of faith and knowing the faith could be a strong advantage in business. For instance, the large Syrian Jew population in my town has specific needs per their religion and needs to be catered to - and they have the cash to do business.

So what do the rest of you think about that? As an Objectivist, a rational person, an atheist or anyone not of a particular religion, is it ethical to conduct business with said religion in a way that directly supports it? Where is the ethical line drawn?

Personally, I would never produce a single piece of Jewish paraphernalia, even with the intent to sell. I think holding Jewish beliefs is irrational, thus I have no desire to have any sort of relationship with Jewish people where their religion is involved.

On second thought, would Jews hold the same beliefs even if there was no one to produce the necessary traditional Jewish products? Likely. So am I actually promoting their ideology? Or am I simply taking advantage of the market?

I decide: Jewish beliefs are void of reason, and I can only count on and deal with reason. Thus, it would not be to my advantage to bank on the false, irrational philosophy of the Jews, which could drop out from under me at any time. It's bad business, and bad ethics.

I vaguely remember reading Ayn Rand's take on it as something like, "It is not your responsibility to keep everyone else's philosophy and ethics in check." But there must be a line drawn somewhere. What do you think?

[softwareNerd]

There are two aspects to your question. Is it moral and practical to do business with:

• irrational people [who you know are irrational only because they're religious]
  
• religious people, where the business is related to the religion
  

Irrationality: If you don't do business with anyone who had any trace of irrationality, where would that leave you? You need to make the decision, based on the nature and extent of that irrationality. It is quite common, indeed it is the norm, for people to run good businesses, discover scientific facts, and conduct scrupulously honest transactions, while being fairly religious. Therefore, it is likely that you do not run any risk of their religion-related irrationality percolating into their transaction with you.

Religious business: If a church or synagogue wanted your lawn-mowing business to mow its lawn, that does not really promote their ideology in any way. I would say, better take their money than let them spend it elsewhere. I would draw the moral line at ideological support. So, if I were an copywriter I would not write a catchy advertisment to get them new converts.

These types of things depend a lot on the specifics of the case. Finally, however, you have to weigh the value (the long term, rationally-determined value) to you of doing business with them versus not doing business with them. Then, you choose the higher value -- you don't sacrifice it.

[Toolboxnj]

What I was referring to was personal because a family member of mine is in the real estate business down the Jersey shore. Beyond your question there are certain ethical guidlines in real estate because of legislation that supposedly fight discrimination in housing; you cannot "steer" a black family away from a white community and vice versa.

I'll give a bit more background before I give my take.

To my knowledge, Syrian Jews are extremely conservative and require certain amenties for their religious practices that involve kosher laws, sabbath regulations, etc. On Saturday - the Jewish sabbath - Syrians cannot perform any "work" which includes everything from carrying their books to Shul, turning light switches on and off, carrying umbrellas, driving, etc. Since Syrian's cannot "perform work" (i.e. drive their cars) they need to live in close proximity to Shul (their synagogue) so it's easier to walk to and from services on Saturday. Therefore, housing prices are extremely high in a one-mile radius around the Shul to the point where a similar house not within the radius would be half the price. It's also an advantage to live close to the Rabbi as well.

Now, with the business ethics.

So what do the rest of you think about that? As an Objectivist, a rational person, an atheist or anyone not of a particular religion, is it ethical to conduct business with said religion in a way that directly supports it? Where is the ethical line drawn?

I approach this in the same fashion that many here approach the public scholarship question. These people need houses and someone has to help them find a house. If you aren't going to help them someone else will and you won't be in business too long. It's not rational or in one's self-interest to leave money on the table in business; business is about making money. I think it's the mark of a good businessman when one can create value for himself first and then others consequentally.

But I wouldn't do business with drug dealers or terrorists for any amount of money, but what does this have to do with religious folks? The Syrian Jews have done nothing to impede on my right to life, liberty, etc and honestly they are shroud and pretty damn good businessmen themselves. I don't see how the Syrian Jews per say affect my life negatively if I had to deal with them. Honestly, they will usually pay cash and will pay a premium for what they want... isn't that a good thing?

Also by eliminating the Syrians, for example, you'd have to be consistant. Would you do business with Catholics, Muslims, deists, agnostics, Marxists? Pretty soon there's no one left to work with. I don't know of too many Objectivists or those that share the same philosophical viewpoint that I personally follow.

Also of the Western religions I find Judaism the most compatable with how I personally see things. Most of my friends in high school and college were Jewish, including two of my better friends. I don't see Judaism threatening just as I don't see liberal religiousity threatening. Some on this board with disagree with me and that's okay; the Orthodox Jew Matt that walks with his children to Hillel on Saturday claims no emnity against me and we've had some pleasant conversations over the years about business and Israel.

One of the negative things that I see around here is the instant debasement of religion on virtually any topic and this isn't a healthy thing. There are good people who practice religion and there are bad. There are good atheists and bad atheists. Sure, some aspects of religion are antithetical to Objectivism but this doesn't give us licence to be against it in all circumstances. Religion is generally there for those that are looking for moral guidance on an issue and these people should be embraced, not discarded. The fact that folks see wrong in their life and wish to correct it is a praiseworthy virtue... it isn't our job to rail against religion but rather to provide another way other than religion for people to embrace.

[scottkursk]

It is hard. Speaking as a person in business, I've had to make some hard choices with cusotmers.

One of my big accounts is a large born again school and their bigot headmaster. He doesn't want to deal with my staff who are all very much not white. As I mentioned in the afformentioned thread, the only Christian in the office is a guy who's a Chinese citizen. I didn't point this out to the customer. I just took his money. Because of his bigotry, he gets to wait to speak to me. And he waits a very very long time.

I did put it to my office whether we wanted to take the account. We decided to do that. Ironically, we've got more racist/bigoted cusotmers who are Indian as well. It's much more common for my staff to face bigotry from "their own" people. They don't want to deal with the Muslim from Pakistan or the Hindu because she's a woman. They also don't want to deal with the Jain from America. So you have another bigot that will only deal with the white guy. That is the definition of irrationality.

Still, because of their bigotries, they don't get the same level of service and they probably in the grand scheme of things suffer. I have in the past either turned down accounts or closed existing accounts, many of which were real income generators for me. So I did suffer by refusing to deal with irrational people. Actually, given the nature of my business, I deal with incredibly irrational people on a day to day basis. So for me it's a matter of drawing a line in the sand so-to-speak.