Starblade Enkai Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) I found a John David Galt when I was googling "Equal Footing". Originally my intent was to create a theory that dealt with identity and existence and how neither one preceeded the other in the way that they both preceed consciousness. Then I found this page on the internet. In the article it mentions a variant of a game, whereas in the variant that is played, everybody start of equally and can gain however many 'points' they want. Though I've only made a cursory examination of the page, I think that Ayn Rand at least subconsciously knew about this, and somehow ended up using that name in her book Atlas Shrugged. I could be wrong, but I think there is merit to the idea. Oh, yes, and I realize I accidentally posted this in the debate forum, so how about I start a debate, something a bit more worthy of being debated than this topic? Do you think Ayn Rand used words or names that already existed and that had symbolic meaning, even if only to her, and that she did so intentionally? Or do you think she just made up words on the spot that were completely original? Edited March 22, 2007 by Starblade Enkai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMERICONORMAN Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Let's See: "Kira" is the feminine of Cyrus in Russian and he is the hero from The Mysterious Valley. Howard Roark, I suspect was named for "How" as in the essence of him is his method; and "roar" as in a metaphor for his spirit. Francisco was obviously named for Frank O'Connor. Ragnar is a known scandinavian name, but Danneskjold sounds like "Danish Gold". Judge Narraganset; Narraganset is a native name and it seems ironic that the grand advocate of objective law would be a member of the race that accuses the white man from stealing their land. Hugh Akston; You Ask Him. Hank Rearden: Hank for Patrick Henry. Toohey as in "Me too". Leo Kovalensky is named after her childhood Leo. Victor has something to do with Victor Hugo, perhaps Ayn Rand's love and dislike for him. Prometheus is obvious. Wesley Mouch: "Mooch" Patrick Henry University for Patrick Henry. Peter Keating; Keating for "cheating" Gail Wynand. A gale of wind, wine as in Dionysus. Most of these are guesses but I suspect it's a combination of personal values, thematic symbols, the sound of words, and spontaneity. For me the same applies. But sometimes they are so subjective and personal, a code to myself. Sometime they are just silly and saying those names at the time of writing made me giggle. For example Freddy Donini is the name of a future character. Freddy is an indictment of a certain philosopher and Donini is the name of a good cheap value for your money Italian wine. Jose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Let's See: "Kira" is the feminine of Cyrus in Russian and he is the hero from The Mysterious Valley. Howard Roark, I suspect was named for "How" as in the essence of him is his method; and "roar" as in a metaphor for his spirit. Francisco was obviously named for Frank O'Connor. Ragnar is a known scandinavian name, but Danneskjold sounds like "Danish Gold". Judge Narraganset; Narraganset is a native name and it seems ironic that the grand advocate of objective law would be a member of the race that accuses the white man from stealing their land. Hugh Akston; You Ask Him. Hank Rearden: Hank for Patrick Henry. Toohey as in "Me too". Leo Kovalensky is named after her childhood Leo. Victor has something to do with Victor Hugo, perhaps Ayn Rand's love and dislike for him. Prometheus is obvious. Wesley Mouch: "Mooch" Patrick Henry University for Patrick Henry. Peter Keating; Keating for "cheating" Gail Wynand. A gale of wind, wine as in Dionysus. Most of these are guesses but I suspect it's a combination of personal values, thematic symbols, the sound of words, and spontaneity. For me the same applies. But sometimes they are so subjective and personal, a code to myself. Sometime they are just silly and saying those names at the time of writing made me giggle. For example Freddy Donini is the name of a future character. Freddy is an indictment of a certain philosopher and Donini is the name of a good cheap value for your money Italian wine. Jose. I Don't pick the name for my stories in such a way. For my modern and sci-fi ones I pick names I like the sound of and for my fantasy names I make up names and pick them based on a meaning I give them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necrovore Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) The web page Starblade Enkai cited looks to me like the opposite of what he describes: the web page's author was named, and the games were created, after Atlas Shrugged. John David Galt lists an address in California, and the games are said to have been published in a magazine in 1996. I don't think Ayn Rand would have written anything that had symbolic meaning "only to her," because of her insistence on language as an objective instrument in The Art of Fiction. She made scathing comments about Gertrude Stein and James Joyce, because they made up undefined words, and wrote stuff that made sense only to themselves. However, she apparently had no qualms about using literary allusions which were rationally graspable, even if they required some education on the part of the audience. Some of these are obvious -- the use of Atlantis in Atlas Shrugged, for example -- and some are not so obvious. (An article on the web pointed this one out to me years ago: In The Fountainhead book 2 chapter 13, Ellsworth Toohey writes, of the Stoddard Temple suit, "Mr. Roark pulled a Phryne in court and didn't get away with it" -- an allusion to the trial of Phryne in ancient Greek history.) As to where she got the names for her characters -- I'm not sure where, and I'm not sure it matters too much. A character has to be called something -- and it's important not to pick something that calls up irrelevant associations in the mind of the reader -- but ultimately it is the character's actions and dialogue that determine what the character's name means to the reader. The name John Galt probably didn't mean anything until Atlas Shrugged was written. The same thing is true of Ebenezer Scrooge or Luke Skywalker (that their names didn't mean anything until their respective works were written). [several minor corrections] Edited March 22, 2007 by necrovore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus98876 Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 I Don't pick the name for my stories in such a way. For my modern and sci-fi ones I pick names I like the sound of and for my fantasy names I make up names and pick them based on a meaning I give them. For my fantasy it does not not work so well drawing off tne names of existing well known people, I try to pick names in a simiar way to you, names that "sound good". However, there is often little reason not to use real-world names like Richard, etc as long as they fit the character. Is it just me, or does Keating, the "cheating' thing aside seem to be an dishonest name? I wonder why I might think that..hmm. I guess as for John Gat, John is an honest sounding name, which fits John Galt last time I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 A character has to be called something -- and it's important not to pick something that calls up irrelevant associations in the mind of the reader I agree. That is why my fantasy main characters have names that have meanings relevant to them. For my fantasy it does not not work so well drawing off tne names of existing well known people, I try to pick names in a simiar way to you, names that "sound good". However, there is often little reason not to use real-world names like Richard, etc as long as they fit the character. True, but that doesn't work for my dragons does it? Can you imagine a dragon called Jennifer? (Note: Jennifer is my favourite female name.) Is it just me, or does Keating, the "cheating' thing aside seem to be an dishonest name? I wonder why I might think that..hmm. It does to me, too. Maybe it is because of the way Rand presented the character of Keating. I guess as for John Gat, John is an honest sounding name, which fits John Galt last time I checked. I don't know much about Galt yet, having not got to him in the book yet, but even the blurb was enough for me to get an idea about him, to be able to tell that what you say seems right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus98876 Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 I agree. That is why my fantasy main characters have names that have meanings relevant to them. True, but that doesn't work for my dragons does it? Can you imagine a dragon called Jennifer? (Note: Jennifer is my favourite female name.) It does to me, too. Maybe it is because of the way Rand presented the character of Keating. I don't know much about Galt yet, having not got to him in the book yet, but even the blurb was enough for me to get an idea about him, to be able to tell that what you say seems right. It is not just how Rand portrays Keating, though thats probably a part of it. Please, dont call a dragon Jennifier or such, that IS really silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Please, dont call a dragon Jennifier or such, that IS really silly. Exactly my point. That is why my dragons have names such as Ktelris, Ylnar, Slis, and Zxin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted March 22, 2007 Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 [Moved to bookclubs since this isn't a debate: D.O.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starblade Enkai Posted March 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2007 Thanks. I felt rather embarassed at having accidentally posted in debate. Which is why I brought this issue up... kinda like, covering my mistakes. Which I know I shouldn't really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McVey Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 As I recall, someone actually asked Miss Rand this question directly, and she said that she picked names for good characters that sounded good to her. For example, Howard Rearden and Howard Roark got their names because she said she loved hearing those sounds, particularly the R. I had a search through the Objectivism CD ROM and I can't find it anywhere in print on there, which leads me to think it's in the Q&A section of a recorded lecture somewhere. I think that it is part of one of Dr Peikoff's rather than hers, too, but I am not sure. JJM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidOdden Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Has anyone read any of the novels of the Scottish novelist John Galt, or more to the point, do we know if Rand did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus98876 Posted March 23, 2007 Report Share Posted March 23, 2007 Has anyone read any of the novels of the Scottish novelist John Galt, or more to the point, do we know if Rand did? You would mean the John Galt whom was also a colonist, as Secretary to the Canada Company, a charter company established to aid in the colonization of Upper Canada I take it then. He also had a town, Galt named after him in Canada I beleive. For anyone intrested : Go here for Wikipedia article, and you can try Here for a longer article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.