Yes Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I recently came across an article in the Ayn Rand institute regarding a concept of teaching math in schools called "Whole math." So I decided to research this a little further just to see what whole math really is. Having gone to school many years ago, I never experienced this approach to math education. Math consisted of quantitatively working with absolutes and relatives, and reaching solutions in exact or otherwise accurate numerical results. Here's one commentary on Whole Math. "Whole math" is a form of instruction that has kids develop their own methods of multiplying and dividing, ask questions of one another rather than of teachers, and learn that answers that are close to correct are good enough So, Education has come to this, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreathofLife Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Let's hope none of the children who learn to use math this way ever work for NASA or the Department of Defense... or become scientists that discover new drugs...or build houses...or cars...hmm where is this going? That's a nice way to teach children to never be able to deal with reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
source Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Is someone playing a bad joke over there in America or what? I haven't heard that much nonsense in a lifetime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Is someone playing a bad joke over there in America or what? I haven't heard that much nonsense in a lifetime! I got another one for you, let me paraphrase the introduction of a pre-calc text I was leafing through at the book store; "Math is rendered boring to students by its rigid adherance to logic and proof. The concept of proof as an absolute is an out moded remnant of flawed 17th century thinking, proof instead depends on who and when you are." The book sought to teach mathematics through an examination of its non-essentials, without regard for truth, validity, or even correct answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_speicher Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 "Math is rendered boring to students by its rigid adherance to logic and proof. The concept of proof as an absolute is an out moded remnant of flawed 17th century thinking, proof instead depends on who and when you are." Could you please provide the reference. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Could you please provide the reference. Thanks. Sure, "Pre-Calculus Mathematics in a Nutshell Geometry, Algebra, Trigonometry" by George F. Simmons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_speicher Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Sure, "Pre-Calculus Mathematics in a Nutshell Geometry, Algebra, Trigonometry" by George F. Simmons It seems to be a popular seller, and there are a number of positive user reviews. Interesting that the author could make as clueless and horrific a statement of principle as that which you quoted, and yet put out a volume that might have some practical use. Thanks for the quote and the reference. That is definitely one for the Horror File. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Areactor Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 When I was in Algebra II, they introduced a mathematical entity called "Invisible numbers". The creator was Rene Descartes. IS "invisible numbers" even valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAS Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 If, by invisible, you mean imaginary, then yes it's completely valid: Imaginary numbers by wikipedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreathofLife Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 Yes. Just a case of clarifying something that is real by using something that is not (such as the theorem stating that every polynomial of degree N has N zeros - though some of those zeros are imaginary because you cannot take the square root of -1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_speicher Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 When I was in Algebra II, they introduced a mathematical entity called "Invisible numbers". The creator was Rene Descartes. IS "invisible numbers" even valid? Though the use of "invisble" is not a proper translation of what Descartes said, he did use the term "false" to refer to negative roots of equations and he used the term "imaginary" to refer to the complex roots of such equations. I suspect that your book was referring to the "imaginary number" i, which is really a mathematical operator such that i*i = -1. This is a perfectly valid mathematical concept of method. You have to be very careful when it comes to mathematics and physics in not treating some of the specialized terminology in too literal a way. "i" is not really "imaginary" and quarks do not have "charm," as in being nice people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 You have to be very careful when it comes to mathematics and physics in not treating some of the specialized terminology in too literal a way. "i" is not really "imaginary" and quarks do not have "charm," as in being nice people. And there's nothing immoral about irrational numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_speicher Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 And there's nothing immoral about irrational numbers. Yes, but I am not so sure about the automorphisms and homomorphisms in the field of topology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_feldblum Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 And there's nothing immoral about irrational numbers. Or about "charm", as in being nice people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_speicher Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Or about "charm", as in being nice people. I do not understand the point of your post. I previously wrote "and quarks do not have 'charm,' as in being nice people. " You seem to be repeating a good deal of what I said. Are you making a joke that I am just not getting, or do you have some point that I miss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsalt Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 ManOMan! And I thought English teachers were lazy! Now the edgycationists have taken over Math as well. The disease spreads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
source Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 The disease spreads. Like a plague. Horrible. Just horrible. I don't have a horror file... If I made one, this would be the scariest thing in it for years to come, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagny Posted August 29, 2004 Report Share Posted August 29, 2004 I was accepted into the California Academy of Math and Science for my high school years. While the science classes did have a progressive "environmentalist" angle they weren't as bad as the math classes. To my dismay ... we were used as guinea pigs for a new type of mathbook being developed called IMP (Interactive Mathematics Program). What IMP tries to do is teach the concepts without any basic formulas or foundations. It gives pendulum problems without teaching basic geometry or algebra. It gives calculus-required problems without introducing the Fundamental Theorem. It expects the students to work in groups...come up with their own "formulas" ...and does not allow them to ask the teacher for any help. We always wondered why they even bothered hiring math teachers if all they did was read magazines at their desk. Also, no matter how smart a student is they cannot expect them to create formulas and identities which took brilliant geniuses years to come up with. Here is a link to their website: http://www.mathimp.org/index.html Under "A Brief Description of IMP" there is a quote saying : Dr. Webb has found that IMP students do as well as students in traditional mathematics classes on standardized tests such as the SAT. This is especially significant because IMP students spend about 25 percent of their time studying topics that are not covered on these tests. I would suggest Dr. Webb find out if any of those students aren't taking traditional math classes during their summer breaks at college campuses, which is what I had to do out of fear of getting behind in traditional math. Everyone at school hated this new progressive math program. We all complained about it to the administrators of the school. I recently found out that they now have elective courses which teach tradtional math along with these "IMP" classes at the school. What is more worrying is that the IMP textbooks are now used in local unified school districts in Los Angeles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreathofLife Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 That is horrible. It completely destroys the concept of passing along knowledge and building upon what those before you have discovered. If everyone used that sort of idea in every part of their lives men would be living in caves in the very near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
source Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 I've made an entry in my new blog about this topic. My blog is at http://milkhoney.blog.com/ The direct link to this entry is: http://milkhoney.blog.com/34405/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsalt Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 The comprachicos are back in full force! Has anyone considered bringing back impalment for such people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMNAPIV Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I can't resist adding a joke I just heard-- Mathematician’s ultimate pickup line: I wish you were x^3 and I was (1/4)(x^4), so I would be the area under your curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I can't resist adding a joke I just heard-- Mathematician’s ultimate pickup line: I wish you were x^3 and I was (1/4)(x^4), so I would be the area under your curves. According to "Whole Math", this joke is not valid. I have discovered my own way of calculating the coordinates, and my answer is almost like yours, but not quite, and you are not in the area under the my curves. This topic made me sad. (good joke though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagny Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Mathematician’s ultimate pickup line: I wish you were x^3 and I was (1/4)(x^4), so I would be the area under your curves. BRILLIANT! That is actually the best pick up line I've ever heard! Beats the crap out of those like "did you hurt yourself when you fell from heaven?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossiblyParanoid Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 The comprachicos are back in full force! I was discussing the Comprachicos with a retired government school teacher, also an Objectivist who'd read Rand's article, and was trying to persuade her that the teachers and administrators are not intentionally trying to destroy the students' minds - that it's just an unintended, but to us expected, consequence of government run schools. I couldn't convince her. She maintained that they know what they are doing, and they're doing it on purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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